If Tyson fought in the 70s he would not survive

I think Mike would have:

Blown through a lot of hand-picked guys on his way up, same as he did in his time (the only person really resembling a contender he fought on the way up was Quick Tillis, and he had his hands full there).

Run into a wall when he finally got his shot, whether it be against Ali, Frazier, Foreman or if he came along late, Holmes.

Have a few years where he whacks out some mid-tier guys and is still relevant, but runs into one or more of the above (after losing his title shot) and lost again.

Fall to pieces mentally. He was destined for a short peak (I mean people honestly say he was past his prime when he lost to Buster at 23). There weren’t beltholders hanging out on every corner in the 1970s so he’s got to put it together against a big dog to have any short of championship career, and if he does beat one of the above he didn’t seem like a guy who was going to keep his dedication or attention span for long.

I think he was mentally fragile, a bully front runner type who was on top of the world when everything was going his way and he was full of confidence but not so much when things weren’t going his way. Never a dig-deep guy, never a make-adjustments (in or out of the ring) when things aren’t working guy. Ali would run rings around him in the mental game. Foreman would make him mess his pants. Frazier would still be in there when Mike began to have self-doubt after Joe weathers what Mike brings early. I think Holmes is also mentally stronger and in his peak out-classes him.

However you think it would go, what in Mike Tyson’s history makes anyone think there’s a world or alternate reality where he has staying power past, say, 25 years old? And when those 1970s sharks start smelling blood, they’d be circling and eating him alive imo.

 

Fair.

 

So first imagine that it says White Bomber instead of me
I didn't say that in 86-88 Tyson would beat Ali, but not Foreman, but that Foreman has a puncher's chance.
Foreman has a shot at what Tucker failed to do.
Frazier with his pressing style would collapse. Like his son against 86-88 Tyson, I just think he would last longer.
What Shavers did not complete against Holmes; Tyson would finish.
Norton - no comment required.
But I still think most of you know boxing better than I do.
However, I am certainly not nostalgic.
I guess I explained...

 

He could beat anybody in that era except Foreman. Even 70’s Ali would be no sure thing to beat young Tyson, though I might favour him. Frazier has a shot but as much as it pains me to say, I think it’s more likely Tyson blows him out.

However even if things went perfectly for him & Foreman was kept waiting at the back of the line, that destruction Tyson would suffer would be mentally insurmountable. Tyson wouldn’t have coped & come back.

 

The Ali Tyson could beat would be the one that put on a sloppy performance against Bonavena and lost to Frazier

The Ali that beat Foreman though, not sure anyone beats him on that night

The Frazier that was running through guys and beat Ali has the best chance with Tyson, but I think even the Frazier from the first Bonavena fight likely gets destroyed, but technically that's late 60's, and by the 2nd Ali fight Frazier had already lost quite a bit of steam

Bonavena might actually end up being a tough night for Tyson, he was very formidable against various styles

The thing with Foreman is, he would be able to handle Tyson with his bracing and shoving, but he could never box like Holyfield or Tokyo Douglas did when they got Tyson hurt and poured it on for the finish, and realistically prime Tyson isn't going to get caught by the slow uppercuts like Frazier did because he doesn't bend over at the waist like Frazier, it would be a rough night for both of them, I give it to Foreman mostly because they would frustrate each other and Foreman is better at being enraged in the ring than Tyson but I cannot say that Foreman would go 2/3 with prime Tyson

 

the individual is always equal to the general population, never the other way around... Tyson in a better era would have had better rivals, better sparring partners, better training and better fights. it would develop more fully, it would be more complete. After defeating Holmes and Spinks, he completely lost motivation and even fired his trainer, claiming he didn't need him... but even Tyson from 1988, when he was still developing, was faster, better trained and more explosive than any HW from the 1970s. Perhaps Foreman would have him stopped, Shavers would have a puncher's chance, Ali and Holmes would be a problem, but with each of them Tyson would be the favorite.

 

No he would survive, maybe hold the title for a short time perhaps.
But he'd lose to Ali and Foreman imo, he could perhaps beat the 19 73 Joe Frazier.
Joe was taking it a bit easy by then and had lost a fair bit in the FOTC.
He'd do well in most fights, he had the speed and power but there would be other losses along the way.

 

GREAT point on Frazier's left hook--he could snap that off like a cracking whip!! And that's in large part due to a farming accident he suffered in his youth that damaged his left arm--it never fully straightened and healed properly. That slight bend in his left arm was definitely a factor in how fast Joe could fire that pulverizing hook!

If prime Tyson and prime Frazier met I think Tyson would do some early damage--might even drop Joe to the canvas. But prime Joe was so bulldog tough--if Tyson didn't stop him by round 4 it's all over for him!!

 

Tyson would still be Top 5 in the 70s. Behind Ali, Foreman, Frazier and Holmes.

 

I think so, too. I don't think he beats those guys, but Tate, Weaver, Norton, Spinks, Shavers, Quarry, Ellis...all else fall. I'm sure he'd pick up a title, whether it's a UD against post-Thrilla Ali, or the first four names in this paragraph.

 

Here’s the thing that makes it difficult for Tyson: in this scenario, you have to start the clock somewhere.

In mythical one-off fantasy matches, it’s the best Tyson (or a certain version of him) vs. the best whoever (or a certain version of him) — you can make Tyson of Spinks vs. Ali of Manila and like Mike’s chances (maybe) or Tyson of Douglas vs. FotC Frazier and maybe not like his chances.

But whatever point you want to pick to start his clock running to figure how he would navigate the 1970s, he’s got a window of maybe four years where he’s going to be peak or near peak. We can’t decide he stays frozen in a time capsule between fights and he is Tyson of Spinks in 1970 and still the same fighter in 1978. We saw him self-destruct and deteriorate before our very eyes.

Maybe for the purposes of this he doesn’t spend 3+ years in prison but the Tyson of Ruddock is not the Tyson of Spinks so there’s still deterioration.

Start him as Tyson of Berbick in 1970 and by the mid-1970s he’s degraded and still has the likes of Foreman and a still-formidable Ali in front of him and a few years later an old Tyson is fighting a young Holmes. That’s not to mention at what point does he face Quarry or Shavers or maybe a tricky Jimmy Young later in this run.

Start him as Tyson of Berbick in 1975 and you probably get the best results, but I still wonder what he’s got to offer vs. Holmes by 1979.

 

The light hitting Jimmy Young beat Foreman...AND....knocked George down!

 

Great post!

To be honest, and I'll be raising some ire here...I don't see even Spinks Mike beating the Larry Holmes of 1978. We remember that first Earnie fight, where Holmes played a near perfect matador. Yes, I know Mike is a hugely better fighter than Shavers, but it was a night of amazing boxing, a height even Tokyo Buster never quite reached. Holmes showed an amazing amount of self-possession and hand speed in that fight, that early Larry might not have stopped Mike but I see a lopsided UD.

 

A good example of chin strength vs chin endurance.