Why come Liston didn't get a title shot against Frazier in the late 60s

Janet Leigh did in the 1960 thriller. She also took a memorable shower there with Norman's mommy, who tried to give her a shave in the shower. Ha Ha

 

Give her a shave? Well then, Norman’s mummy was ahead of her time in terms of feminine grooming. Very charitable of her to give Janet a hand. Too bad it was well intended landscaping gone terribly wrong.

 

I find Klompton's arguments to be compelling. For me it's as if a light switch has been turned on. If you consider how Liston's future must have looked to him, you might conclude that he knew he was in trouble. Age had eroded his boxing skills and those were the only skills he had. He had a prison record. He wasn't even a capable criminal. Taking on weak competition for as long as possible was a reasonable short-term survival strategy, if you ask me. It apparently supported him from 1966 through 1969. He had a wife and an adopted child. An income of $3,000 per month was better than average in 1969, so his idea made sense. Liston knew his
carefully cultivated aura of menace had to be maintained or his boxing career would be over. One more loss and that aura would forever be dispelled.

Sure enough, the first words out of Howard Cosell's mouth when Liston was counted out in the Martin fight were "This will be over and with it Charles 'Sonny' Liston's career". When asked in the post-fight interview if he intended to retire, Liston replied. "Well, I'll have to think about it". What options were available to an illiterate ex-fighter? Security guard? The lowest pay. Bodyguard for entertainers? Not steady or reliable income. Strong-arm work? Drug dealing? Super risky, especially for a celebrity with a prison record. This was a desperate man.

 

So much to say but nothing was said, just long reply to make yourself look smart.
I said and I'm gonna repeat and that is that even if I bring Ali and Machen who would said they were blinded you would find a way to make their oppinion unvalid just because it hurts your ego and your hero's legacy.

 

Well I posted them but somehow you called them not valid since that is your best argument ti now.

 

It's simply not true that Liston was fighting nothing but weak competition. He fought 5th ranked Henry Clark in 1968 and 3rd ranked Leotis Martin in 1969. I just don't buy the idea that he was so intimidated by Jimmy Ellis that he was refusing all offers to face him. The fact that Liston knew his time was running out is all the more reason he'd want to take one big payday before the inevitable end.

 

Right, and Ive already explained why those were soft touches and why their rankings were odd to begin with. And lets not forget that Martin, Sonny’s former sparring partner, had been stopped by Ellis, so lets not pretend that fighting Clark and Martin was the same thing as fighting Quarry, Ellis, etc. I will also remind that when Liston actually did “step up” (and I would dispute that it was much of a step up) and fight someone in the top three he got knocked out brutally. Prior to that fight one paper covering it scoffed at it saying “Martin who?” The guy had been stopped by Ellis and beaten handily by Bonavena as well as losing to Roger Russell of all people and Henry Clark. So goes the idea that Liston was taking some huge risk or some big step up. But like I said, some people will believe what they want.

 

The result's irrelevant. The fact is Liston did step up, which makes it unlikely that he would refuse to step up against Ellis for - presumably - a much higher purse, not to mention the chance of regaining the championship.

Martin was ranked because, despite the ups and downs of his career, he had stoppage wins over 7th ranked Blue Lewis, 3rd ranked Thad Spencer and 8th ranked Karl Mildenberger. Yes, Ellis proved himself the better all-round fighter, but Martin was the more dangerous puncher.

Funny how the WBA ratings are all-important and the only ones that matter until they start telling you something you don't want to hear.

 

[url]https://flic.kr/p/2pL4xmX[/url]

I'll just leave this right here for a bit of context on how Liston and this fight were viewed at the time. Sputter away with your excuses...

 

It left Janet staring into space at the end. Ha Ha.

 

I might be wrong but didn't Sonny Liston referee the second Ernie Terrell vs Cleveland Williams bout in Houston, in April 1963, won by Terrell by a split decision?

 

He refereed the first bout where Williams stopped Terrell.

 

Short blunt answer: Liston lost credibility after the second loss to Ali and his opponents in the rest of the 60s were not good enough. The first decent boxer he fought against, Leotis Martin, beat Liston .

 

I believe Liston would have absolutely fought Frazier if given the opportunity as he felt his style was made for him. I believe Yank Durham didn't want the fight unless it was big money for the same risk ... Just like returning George wanted Tyson and would have fought him if the stars lined up, Liston felt that way about Frazer .. that said, his post Ali competition was handpicked for the most part for all the obvious reasons .. the Clark victory was the big risk and then Martin.