Why did Sonny Liston/his team attempt to cheat Vs a 7-1 underdog and then quit?

Here's a column from Tex Maule of Sports Illustrated published early March 1964 shortly after the first Ali-Liston fight. (He really was spot on with his analysis and gives a detailed account of what happened in that bout--great read!!)

https://vault.si.com/vault/1964/03/09/muhammad-ali-sonny-liston-first-fight-cassius-clay

 

Did you really bump a 4 year thread to spout this nonsense?

 

Yes.... four years after the fact. Their was zero mention of this for four years until AFTER the Ali fight.

 

Liston showed no heart not only by quiting, but by cheating too.

 

Dude survived being one of 14 children of sharecroppers, beaten so badly by his old dad that it left permanent scars, ran away solo at 14 to find his mom, survived 5 years in the Pen, turned pro after short amateur career, was vilified by the press and hounded by cops, fought 5 rounds with a broken jaw against a cagey vet, fought until well into 40's... but he lacked heart.

Tell me more, keyboard warrior.

 

Someone who quit twice and cheated against multiple opponents is lacking heart and nothing could prove me wrong not even your butthurt reply.
Ron Lyle did all of this stuff and Jack Johnson did too but no one is praising them for their hearts yet you are finding excuses and one of them is fighting a guy who was LHW bum 170 pounds which is pathetic excuse.
If he fought Ali or Martin with broken jaw then maybe, but fighting someone who is joruneyman and smaller than you is not a way to show your heart.

 

The guy cheated against multiple guys by using some substance in his gloves and even with that he quit.
How can that be man with a heart?
You have a Marciano with his nose split in a half and bloody mess knocking Ezzard Charles and you have Frazier fighting blind, now that's what heart really is.

 

Liston didn’t cheat in Miami or prior to.

He went into the first Ali fight with a pre-existing shoulder issue (bursitis) and surrendered due to a significant, and subsequently certified injury, incurred during the fight.

 

Tell me you don't know sht about boxing without telling me you don't sht about boxing.

Great self-own, bro-ham.

 

You wanna reel of Ali cheating? Lewis? Holmes? When did Liston cheat? You still standing by the liniment BS that even Dundee said was BS? Who don't **** bout boxing?

 

Dundee maybe but Ali and Machen still said that it is true and never said otherwise.
I heard that they are not the only ones claimed that they were blinded but I guess you are butthurt and would try to find 100 excuses for each one of them.

 

Roberto Duran showed heart in some fights. He was so poor he nearly drowned going after some mangos he stole and dropped while swimming away … because that was the only food he would have.

Yet he quit like a dog against Leonard.

Someone showing heart in one fight doesn’t mean they have it for another when the chips are down and they see things going the other way. When they’ve reached a summit and maybe have some money in the bank and aren’t scratching and clawing their way to try to make it.

Tell me more … has no fighter who showed heart at some point in their career ever quit?

 

I am a Liston critic because I think he is significantly overrated these days, but even I think you are being a bit harsh on him. Fighting with a broken jaw against anyone is a hell of a manly thing to do, and really, Liston showed his heart by beating all the guys that Patterson's camp avoided.

What happened in the Ali fights? Hard to say. It has been pointed out that he had an injury, but also, like Marciano, he was sick and tired of having his money stolen, and unlike Marciano, he did not have the option of quitting, because he had no money. There was injury, and age...maybe even some shock at how good Ali was...but I think a large part of him deep down just didn't want to be stuck where he was any longer.

As for the lineament, he very well might have done this, as it was an old mob trick. Marciano insisted until the day he died that he had sources that said that Walcott's camp did it to him in the first fight. But it is not proven.

 

All due respect Pug but I'm pretty sure the bursitis was separate to another injury Liston had, and likely made worse during the fight.

Liston was seen icing his shoulder and receiving ultrasound therapy after training but then later cut out sparring altogether which is pretty telling imo. https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-irving-daily-news-texan/103574716/

Dundee, unbeknownst to even himself, had it dead on. "Angelo Dundee challenger Clay's trainer, expressed amazement. He stated: As long as I've been in boxing, I never heard of any man quitting his sparring a week before an important fight unless he was very stale or hurt in some way"

 

One surrender doesn’t make any fighter a quitter per se.

Willard surrendered after 3 torturous rounds vs Dempsey. Would it be fair to call Big Jess a natural born quitter? I don’t believe so

Holmes claimed he could’ve arisen after the final KD against Tyson but saw no practical reason to do so.

So, to hell any context, should we deem Larry to be either a quitter or a liar? Take your pick.

Duran didn’t just show heart in some fights. He showed a lot of heart in a lot of fights.

For Duran, a perfect storm formed against Leonard, in part contributed to by Duran due to less than ideal prep going in.

In hypothesised H2H match ups otherwise - including any other time he fought Leonard, I would confidently back Roberto to fight his way through, come hell or high water, for better or worse.