Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

It seems to me that there have been a nuber of cases throughout history where a champion beleived himself to be taking on an easy oponent but had somehow found the last person in the world he should have fought.

Jim Jeffries was Bob Fitzsimmons bum of the month.

Muhamad Ali was Sonny Listons bum of the month.

George Foreman was Joe Fraziers bum of the month.

Somtimes the next ATG can almost apear from nowhere.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

Fair enough, but although they were underdogs, they were generally considered to be champs of the future.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

But not a particular threat to the champion at the time.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

No, but more of a threat than Tony Galento etc.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

Both Ali and Foreman were unbeaten Olympic gold medallists...hardly 'bum of the month'.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

They certainly had earned their shots, put it that way. Though I guess that most of the guys at the time wouldn't have guessed at them beng true top 20 ATG's for their weight classs.

Though Liston didn't think so. He saw saw Ali as a guy who should be fighting an eliminator rather than stepping straight in with him - he wanted Ali to fight Williams first. Either way, as far as this one is concerned, Liston expected to blow Muhammad out of the water.

Though I personally wonder about that fight.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

What do you wonder?

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

They were all rated fighters ,Ali and Foreman in the top two,hardly unknown,bums of the month ,an expression that I dont like,are more akin to some of Louis,s competition,guys like Jack Roper,who was 36 ,and had been kod by Braddock with one punch,beaten twice by an old George Godfrey,and went into the Louis fight with a record of 26W 22L 5 D,Tony Musto who stood only 5 7 1/2,had lost all 4 of his 1940 fights and won only4 out of his 9 in 41 the year he fought Louis ,he was unrated and unworthy.Jean Peirre Coopman must be up therealong with Ron Stander and Terry Daniels two of Fraziers challengers.How about Pattersons defence against Rademacher,Floyds excuse-" Im asked to fight an amateur for $200,000".disgraceful!

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

If Liston didn't do his miserable best to throw that fight.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

Whatever makes you able to accept the outcome...

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

How do you mean?

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

So, as a guess, what would you say the 'deal' was? Just give a quick rundown of the scenario that he/they planned. Just your guess, that's all.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

Something like this: Liston gets told in the dressing room that he's throwing the fight in round 6. No deal would need to exsist, Liston was as purely owned by the mob as any fighter ever was.

This explains why Liston was seen crying on his way to the ring, the news was fresh. I guess the news would need to be - can't have him knowing a thing like that in the run up.

Liston doesn't get a proper opportunity to dump in the 6th (as he sees it) so he sits on his stool.

Something like that.

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

Well, he left it to chance, because many initially regarded the fight as TKO 7, as he didn't come out for the 7th. So, would he really take that risk?

Re: Never underestimate the bum of the month
 

Not a risk for Sonny. The guy is in dreamland - if the outlined scenario is correct - the guy doesn't know how to dump. All he's wanted to do is KO this guy and then this.

Ali starts sitting down on his punches in 6, really scoring "at will" - you read that time and time again. But Ali is no power puncher - it's possible, I suggest, that Liston is waiting for the guy to hit him hard enough to drop him - just taking the shots - but nothing comes along.

Ding ding, end of round. Oh shit.