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-   -   How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition? (http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=419629)

SuzieQ49 07-23-2012 10:54 AM

How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
A Prime Muhammad Ali..enough said

Prime versions Zora Folley and Eddie Machen were better fundamentally and skillwise than pretty much anyone Dempsey beat with the exception of Jack Sharkey(who was hit in the nuts)

Prime Floyd Patterson is leagues above anyone Dempsey beat. Dempsey never faced anyone with combination punching, handspeed, finishing ability, boxing skills of a Floyd Patterson


Prime Cleveland Williams is an interesting matchup. He is clearly more talented and much faster than any big oaf Dempsey fought.


Nino Valdes, Johnny Summerlin, Roy Harris, Mike Dejohn, Wayne Bethea would all likely get battered, but some of these men like DeJohn and Valdes had size combined with serious power and a ramrod left jab.

Seamus 07-23-2012 11:34 AM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
With his leaky defense and lack of a cool head in the ring, I see Dempsey getting sparked by a couple of these guys, especially the more skilled with some pop. Then again, some of these fellers are of darker complexion and ol' Jack shied from those guys after his meeting with John Lester Johnson.

LittleRed 07-23-2012 11:39 AM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Seamus (Post 13418435)
With his leaky defense and lack of a cool head in the ring, I see Dempsey getting sparked by a couple of these guys, especially the more skilled with some pop. Then again, some of these fellers are of darker complexion and ol' Jack shied from those guys after his meeting with John Lester Johnson.

Name me one good black fighter from that era that Dempsey didn't almost fight Seamus, just one.

Vic-JofreBRASIL 07-23-2012 11:40 AM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Prime Dempsey would have a tough fight with Patterson, but the advantage in power would be a big advantage to Dempsey......
The rest of these guys are a tad overrated IMO, guys like Cleveland Williams or Zora Folley, they were decent but nothing special....Fred Fulton level of fighters, actually Cleveland Williams doesnīt have a better resume than Fred Fulton...just to start a single comparison in this thread.

Seamus 07-23-2012 11:59 AM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleRed (Post 13418469)
Name me one good black fighter from that era that Dempsey didn't almost fight Seamus, just one.

Oh, nothing speaks greater for a fighter's legacy than those he ALMOST fought...

:patsch

Stevie G 07-23-2012 12:04 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
A young Cassius Clay would have outboxed Jack. I'd fancy Dempsey's chances against all of Sonny's other opponents.

SuzieQ49 07-23-2012 12:11 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
r
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vic-JofreBRASIL (Post 13418478)
Prime Dempsey would have a tough fight with Patterson, but the advantage in power would be a big advantage to Dempsey......
The rest of these guys are a tad overrated IMO, guys like Cleveland Williams or Zora Folley, they were decent but nothing special....Fred Fulton level of fighters, actually Cleveland Williams doesnīt have a better resume than Fred Fulton...just to start a single comparison in this thread.

Folley, Machen would box Fultons ears off....win every round

Williams would knock beanpole fulton out early

I think these men were special fighters, who didn't get to showcase it in a championship setting because Damato wanted no part of these guys

Legend X 07-23-2012 12:16 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Take Dempsey at his best and he would beat them all, knock most of them out. Even the 1964 Clay shouldn't be favoured over the absolute best version of Dempsey.
But facing them all as a career, he'd probably lose to two or three of them.

I don't see Patterson giving Dempsey much of a fight. Patterson could well be on the floor every few seconds.

Legend X 07-23-2012 12:19 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 (Post 13418708)
r

Folley, Machen would box Fultons ears off....win every round

Williams would knock beanpole fulton out early

Have you ever seen Fred Fulton boxing on film ?

janitor 07-23-2012 12:35 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
I think that he would have beaten everybody Liston beat prety convincingly.

The only one who would have posed a serious threat to him is Eddie Machen, and even there I would favour Dempsey.

Legend X 07-23-2012 12:41 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by janitor (Post 13418889)
The only one who would have posed a serious threat to him is Eddie Machen, and even there I would favour Dempsey.

I think Machen would probably be KO'd early.
Machen's best possible scenario would be to try to spoil his way through the fight to see the final bell but I don't think he could deal with the speed and pace of Dempsey.

Seamus 07-23-2012 01:36 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Legend X (Post 13418777)
Have you ever seen Fred Fulton boxing on film ?

No, so we must assume he was fantastic because the negation of evidence proves what ever one wishes it to prove.

Given his record and contemporary accounts, I believe Fulton was pretty damn good by any standard and one Dempsey's greatest victories. He was perhaps a little fragile but could handle most in good fashion. I think he would measure up well with the challengers from the 50's, but most of Dempsey's opponents would not.

That said, Dempsey did take this guy out in one which is a very impressive result.

Vic-JofreBRASIL 07-23-2012 01:56 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SuzieQ49 (Post 13418708)
r

Folley, Machen would box Fultons ears off....win every round

Williams would knock beanpole fulton out early

I think these men were special fighters, who didn't get to showcase it in a championship setting because Damato wanted no part of these guys

Fultonīs resume doesnīt suggest that......also, what gives Dempseyīs wins more value is that he was always with a size disavantage....this is something often forgot......Liston was the opposite, always much bigger and with a good advantage in his favor.

Anyway.....the only thing Fulton didnīt have probably was a great chin but we know Williams also wasnīt too durable......itīs a pretty good comparison for starters..

SuzieQ49 07-23-2012 01:56 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
Quote:

Take Dempsey at his best and he would beat them all, knock most of them out. Even the 1964 Clay shouldn't be favoured over the absolute best version of Dempsey.
Muhammad Ali of 1964 would have embarrassed any version of Dempsey

PowerPuncher 07-23-2012 02:43 PM

Re: How would Jack Dempsey do against Sonny Listons opposition?
 
The threats to him are Patterson, Cleveland Williams, Machen and Folley he beats the rest.

All better than anyone Dempsey beat, all stylistically tricky fights for Dempsey, not that he'd lose them all but I don't see him fighting that schedule without picking up a defeat, maybe he could though. There's a decent chance he KO's Williams and Patterson but in turn both could KO him and would probably be the best punchers he faced. Machen and Folley have their chance to implement the gameplan Miske and Tunney used to frustrate Dempsey


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