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-   -   Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive? (http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=454917)

Theron 01-16-2013 08:16 PM

Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
I dont think it was a dive, against Ali Liston had a habit of really lunging and leaning way forward to try to land his jab against Ali and i think the punch Ali landed didnt hurt Liston it was just enough to push him and a bit of a flash knockdown that pushed him that tiny bit extra off balance and cause him to fall, Liston said that he was on the floor waiting for Walcott to start the count because he was afraid of Ali and thought Ali was going to bite him when he stood up and just stayed down waiting for the count and for Ali to move, thats why i think he was on his knees at the start and then rolled over cause Ali was over him and then you can see in his eyes he was fine getting up and then he saw Ali running around the ring and when Ali started running behind him where he couldnt see Ali he rolled over again, and also in that famous picture Liston was just flat on his back with his hands up like he was being arrested, they werent on the floor flat like he was hurt or knocked out they were just above the ground, i think he was just deathly afraid of Ali and thought he was actually crazy

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TheSouthpaw 01-16-2013 09:03 PM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theron (Post 14586565)
I dont think it was a dive, against Ali Liston had a habit of really lunging and leaning way forward to try to land his jab against Ali and i think the punch Ali landed didnt hurt Liston it was just enough to push him and a bit of a flash knockdown that pushed him that tiny bit extra off balance and cause him to fall, Liston said that he was on the floor waiting for Walcott to start the count because he was afraid of Ali and thought Ali was going to bite him when he stood up and just stayed down waiting for the count and for Ali to move, thats why i think he was on his knees at the start and then rolled over cause Ali was over him and then you can see in his eyes he was fine getting up and then he saw Ali running around the ring and when Ali started running behind him where he couldnt see Ali he rolled over again, and also in that famous picture Liston was just flat on his back with his hands up like he was being arrested, they werent on the floor flat like he was hurt or knocked out they were just above the ground, i think he was just deathly afraid of Ali and thought he was actually crazy

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Your contradicting yourself on this one!..of course it was a dive..you really expect us to believe Liston was pushed down or that it was a flash knockdown?..Then why didnt he get his big ass back up?

TheSouthpaw 01-16-2013 09:04 PM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
And I wonder where you got the idea for this thread!?...:hey

HOUDINI 01-16-2013 11:36 PM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
LOTS of evidence it was no dive:

1) Listons legs twitch while he lay on the canvas.
2) Minutes after the fight was stopped and crowds are pouring in the ring Liston does a studder step to one side.
3) Listons trainers alone with Liston in his dressing room after the fight stated that Liston asked for smelling salts.
4) No evidence was ever found that a fix indeed occurred.
5) Liston was hit on the chin while stepping foreword thus increasing the punches power.
6) Listons lead foot was lifted off the canvas from the force of Ali's blow.
7) Liston trained like a demon for the fight. You don't get into that great of shape knowing its a fix.
8) Those at ringside who actually saw the punch stated it was a true KO..Torres, Patterson, Damato among others.

The Spider 01-17-2013 12:02 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
I doubt a nearly 50 year old mystery will be solved here.

Theron 01-17-2013 12:04 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw (Post 14586723)
Your contradicting yourself on this one!..of course it was a dive..you really expect us to believe Liston was pushed down or that it was a flash knockdown?..Then why didnt he get his big ass back up?

I actually say why he didnt get up... you gotta read it fully man

Seamus 01-17-2013 12:23 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Was just discussing this in another forum tonight. The circumstances around this fight stunk to high hell which is why it ended up in a rinky dink auditorium in Lewiston, Maine, not New York or even Miami. There was a belief that is was to be a dirty fight so when an odd outcome occured it seemed to fulfill that belief.

Theron 01-17-2013 12:47 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Spider (Post 14587371)
I doubt a nearly 50 year old mystery will be solved here.

Im putting in my opinion i didnt write this is what happened im 100% certain if you dont believe me your wrong...

Boxed Ears 01-17-2013 12:50 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
I just want McGrain to know that I held back, here. Hard. I don't know if you've ever tried to not sneeze, but imagine that feeling has lasted throughout an entire cold.

Theron 01-17-2013 12:59 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Haha what the hell just noticed the beaver :huh

Kiwi Kid 01-17-2013 01:19 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HOUDINI (Post 14587271)
LOTS of evidence it was no dive:

1) Listons legs twitch while he lay on the canvas.
2) Minutes after the fight was stopped and crowds are pouring in the ring Liston does a studder step to one side.
3) Listons trainers alone with Liston in his dressing room after the fight stated that Liston asked for smelling salts.
4) No evidence was ever found that a fix indeed occurred.
5) Liston was hit on the chin while stepping foreword thus increasing the punches power.
6) Listons lead foot was lifted off the canvas from the force of Ali's blow.
7) Liston trained like a demon for the fight. You don't get into that great of shape knowing its a fix.
8) Those at ringside who actually saw the punch stated it was a true KO..Torres, Patterson, Damato among others.

Also Liston said the real reason he didn't get up in time is because Jersey Joe never gave him a count (as he was too busy trying to put Ali in a neutral corner) so Liston never knew that he had been counted out. When Jersey Joe went to the time keeper to ask what the count was, Liston and Ali carried on fighting, then Jersey Joe eventually stopped them after finding out the count had reached 10
(However, I believe Patterson disputed the KO, as he believed Liston could not of been knocked out by that punch as he claimed that Ali didn't hit that hard)

Theron 01-17-2013 01:58 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid (Post 14587575)
Also Liston said the real reason he didn't get up in time is because Jersey Joe never gave him a count (as he was too busy trying to put Ali in a neutral corner) so Liston never knew that he had been counted out. When Jersey Joe went to the time keeper to ask what the count was, Liston and Ali carried on fighting, then Jersey Joe eventually stopped them after finding out the count had reached 10
(However, I believe Patterson disputed the KO, as he believed Liston could not of been knocked out by that punch as he claimed that Ali didn't hit that hard)

Also Listons head movement ect was very good when he got up he was ducking punches ect

Stevie G 01-17-2013 04:45 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
The knockdown was genuine. No matter what bull**** conspiracy theorists claim. After that,Liston was intimidated. Pure and simple.

McGrain 01-17-2013 04:57 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Theron (Post 14586565)
thought Ali was going to bite him

:lol: superb

HOUDINI 01-17-2013 06:21 AM

Re: Real Reason for Ali Liston 2 ? Not a dive?
 
From Sports Illustrated written right after the fight in 1965:

For the few qualified observers who had a clear view of the knockout punch, there was no doubt about its power. Immediately after it landed, Floyd Patterson, seated at ringside in the most advantageous position to see the blow, said, in answer to a direct question: "It was a perfect right hand." Jose Torres, the light heavyweight champion, agreed. "A very strong right hand," he said. Indeed, for all those who had a good view of the punch—and, unfortunately, there could not have been more than 1,200—there was never any doubt as to the stunning power of the blow. it was perfectly delivered against an opponent who was moving toward it, so that the effect was of a head-on collision.


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