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Old 03-15-2012, 06:56 PM   #73
choklab
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Default Re: How would a prime Charles have fared against Marciano?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Ezzard Charles was as much a heavyweight as Billy Conn.
ballhang!! how many heavyweight fights did conn have? conn was a great lightheavyweight - he fought joe Louis under the 175lb limit. charles not so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Ezzard Charles was a light heavyweight during his prime
charles was a lighheavyweight at the start of his prime. Like micheal moorer there was a bigger body of work over 180lb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Lesnevich wasn't going near him. !
Charles had a disastrous year in 1943 and was knocked down 16 times in the only 2 fights he had, he was then absent from the LH ratings until 1946 and was always rated behind Billy fox that year who got a shot ahead of him.

1947 was the only year Charles was number one contender to lesnevich- he could have got a shot there but the champion selected his number 4 challenger instead. Of the 12 times he fought in 1947 only 4 of the opponents Ezzard faced scaled within the light heavyweight limit when he fought them - the rest all being heavyweights. I don’t think it scandalous that a part time light heavy didn’t face the champion the one year he was #1 contender.

Back then a light heavy was regarded as a small heavyweight. If a small heavyweight was good enough he was big enough and the real heavyweight title was the goal.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
ALS isn't the flu, man. It takes time to even be detected, and it is damn near a fact that he was showing symptoms by 1955. Ray Arcel observed these symptoms first-hand and commented on his getting tired more easily, his coordination deteriorating. !
show me the symtoms in the wallace and satterfeild fights.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
The fact that Charles was handling heavyweights doesn't make him a natural heavyweight anymore than Duran's handling middleweights makes him a natural middleweight -what it is is proof-positive of his greatness. Would you argue that Mickey Walker was a heavyweight? He was a top-rated contender in 1931 but was he a heavyweight, really? !
No walker was not a heavyweight. He was what he was a fat middle. charles was as big as patterson. was patterson a lightheavyweight? patterson was a #1 rated lightheavy as long as charles was.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Charles's best work was against guys much better than Oma and Barone and perhaps at least as good as Marciano: Bivins, Marshall, Burley, Moore, Overlin, Yarosz. !
Bivins, marshal, moore overlin and yarosz at least as good as marciano??? charles had many excelent wins but the fact remains he was no more dominant at heavyweight from 47-51 as he was from 51-54. both spells he had close disputed fights. in the later period as an ex champion he lost fights the press thought he won and the earlier period (as the prospect) Ez won fights some of the press thought he lost. the point is Chales was as capable of his best work in both spells and film proves this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stonehands89 View Post
Marciano sapped whatever he had left, sure, but I am not convinced that ALS wasn't already taking things out of him as well, which made it easier for Marciano. I watch his legs in '54 and before and see a difference.
well I disagree, no offence but I cannot see it at all. charles was a great fighter leading up to and during the first marciano fight, he was only two years older and was also beating up the new generation of contender - theres not much else charles could have done to earn a shot.

Between 1949 and 1951, Charles had 15 fights and scored 8 knockouts. Two of these came beyond the 10th round. He stopped Freddie Beshore in 14 and Rex Layne in 11. Between 1952 and the Marciano fight he had 15 fights and scored 7 knockouts. All the '52 to '54 knockouts were by the 10th round or earlier, and he might well have stopped Layne in 1953 rather than in 1951 if the lengths of the two fights were reversed. He had Layne down several times late in the 1953 fight.

Marciano and Charles had seven common opponents--Layne, Beshore, Louis, Reynolds, Matthews, Walcott, and Moore--Marciano went 8-0 with 8 ko's against them. Charles went 10-4 with 4 ko's. Marciano was just a better heavyweight than anyone Charles had previously fought.

Last edited by choklab; 03-15-2012 at 08:10 PM.
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