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Old 07-18-2012, 02:58 PM   #46
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Default Re: Who Do You Rate Higher: Jack Dempsey or Jack Johnson ??

Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Ok, I’ll play along:

As a group, I would say Choynski, Hart, Klondike, and Griffin were better than most of the fighters Johnson gave title matches to, save perhaps Willard who KO’d Johnson. To answer you question, I think you have to examine wether or not Johnson’s opponents were in their primes too.

1 ) I’m not sure when Klondike’s prime was. His first listed match was 1898, and he Ko’d Johnson in 1899. I would say based on that, Klondike was far more of a novice than Johnson was, though in 1899. Johnson’s first listed fight was 1894. You could say Johnson lacked some top level experience going into this match. Klondike beat Johnson in match for the colored title, when Johnson apparently quit like a dog without injury, and failed to come out next round.

2 ) Choynski produced a ten count. The fight took place in Johnson’s home town, and by 1901, Choysnki’s best days were behind him when the fight took place. For the record, Johnson first recorded match was in 1894. He had 24+ recorded matches before he was sparked in 3 rounds vs. Choynski, so calling Johnson a green novice is a bit of a stretch.

Both Klondike and Choynski had some power. Chins do not improve greatly as a career progresses. Post 1905-1915 did Johnson give a title shot to 175+ pound fighter in his prime or near prime with skills and power? I think not.

3 ) Griffin best days were most certainly behind him in 1901, yet he defeated Johnson, and drew with him.

4) The Hart match in 1905 was a high stakes, elimination match, with the winner being billed for a title shot with Jeffries. Johnson did very little in the 2nd half of the fight, and lost it. Neither guy was pre or post prime here.

Summary: Klondike was green. Choysnki past his best. Griffin way outside of his prime. Hart was in his prime.

And finally, if you think Johnson wasn’t in his prime until post 1905 that is your opinion. Just admit Johnson would not likely to defeat Jeffries when Jeffries was champion from 1899-1905.

I asked you if you thought Johnson was in his prime in those fights ?

We are judging Johnson v Dempsey BOTH IN THEIR PRIMES.

What is so hard to grasp about that?

You have NOT answered the question.

You say Klondike, Choynski, Griffin ,and Hart are better than Johnson's challengers based on what?
All the extensive film you have seen of them?

Johnson did NOT QUIT against Klondike, both Apollack ,and myelf have corrected you on this before.

Why do you persist in repeating something you know to be false?

According to George Siler, the premier referee of the era,"Johnson was half starved when he fought Klondike".He dropped Klondike early, but ran out of energy and was stopped.

A full report of the fight has been posted by me and ,once again ignored by you.

Johnson was a good 20lbs lighter against Hart than he was when he fought Jeffries at 208lbs photos confirm this, it is not even debatable.

Siler was ringside for the Hart fight and, gave the nod to Johnson,calling Creggains verdict a "very strange decision".

Again this has been posted before and ,ignored by Johnson's chief hater, namely you.

Sad but absolutely predictable.

You are in desperate need of new material.

Last edited by mcvey; 07-18-2012 at 04:34 PM.
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