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Old 08-01-2012, 02:33 AM   #45
Slick & Redheaded
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Default Re: Who had the better Career Resume...Liston or Johnson

Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
This just has me shaking my head.

The Jeffries that Johnson fought was horrible, not bad, not ill-trained, but deficient in every manner to engage in heavyweight boxing.
You could say that. I would actually argue that Jeffries probably was more ill-trained than deficient in a shot and shouldn't be licensed due to brain-damage ala old Ali or Holyfield kind of way. I wouldn't be surprised if that Jeffries was capable of beating at least some of the other "ranked" HWs of that day. Maybe that's too much credit. I do think he dropped far too much weight, too fast by the sounds of it. That definitely affected his performance.

Ketchell was a syphlitic, hophead drunk middleweight in a staged fight, not a lot credit given there, sorry.
Is the Ketchel fight being staged really determined as a consensus nowadays. I always thought that was myth. Was Ketchel drunk when he landed that right hand? How badly was the syphlis at that time... he had just beaten Papke for the MW title 3 months earlier.

Moran had been beaten half a dozen times before meeting Johnson, including being finished by a Who's Who of Nobodies.
Losses were far more prevalent in those days for obvious reasons. While I won't bolster the credentials of Moran as he's not some great fighter. I'm not trying to make him out to be anyway. I think your standards may be a little exceptional for the time period. This is exactly why you listed Jeffries, Johnson, and Dempsey are the three most overrated fighters (Unless you were joking).

The lengths some will go to bolster Johnson's record of excellence offends even my not-so-delicate sensibilities.
Uh huh. Do you rank any pre 50's HW in the top 10 besides Joe Louis then? Times were different. Johnson's record is fallible but more respectable than you're giving credit for. I don't even have to me what all the sports writers and historians thought of his ability and skills during his time. I know what you think of his incessant spoiling and showboating.
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