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Old 08-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #16
Kittikasem
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Default Re: Does Jon Jones have the best GnP in MMA history?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
No i'm not. My opinion is based on what i saw in those mens fights. GnP is GnP which ever way you want to paint it. If Jones GnP was that good people would be talking about it the same way we talked about Fedor's. Therefore your comparison in my eyes is completely invalid.
I disagree, I think what you're saying is wrong.

I accept that Fedor also had special GnP, but making your decisions based on "what people were talking about" is totally, totally bogus IMO.

If guy A relies heavily on his GnP and so uses it more and wins fights using it above all else, obviously people are going to mention it most when discussing said fighter.

How does that mean it's automatically better than the GnP of fighter B, who is more well-rounded and more varied, and so relies on it less, uses it less and finishes fights via other means?

You are effectively removing objective assessment of GnP here, in favour of "what people were talking about".

I prefer to focus only on GnP when evaluating GnP, and when I see Jones at work on the ground I see varied, vicious, accurate striking the like of which very, very, very few fighters have come close to matching IMO.

Fedor is a good call in this regard. Tito Ortiz is not. Jones's GnP is of a higher level than Tito's, he'd have bulldozed the guys that Tito beat even more emphatically and impressively. By comparison, I do not believe Tito could have hurt Shogun as badly on the deck as Jones did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
Again Tito finished more of his fights with soild GnP.
This is irrelevant to who had the better GnP. It's more to do with Tito using his more and fighting weaker opposition. Jones would smear the canvas with every one of those guys on the deck easier and more brutally than Tito managed to, because his GnP is better IMO.

Your point is like saying that BJJ purple belt Cody McKenzie has better submission skills than BJJ 3rd degree black belt Minotauro Nogueira, because McKenzie has 12 submission wins from 13 wins, a much higher percentage than Nogueira's 20 submission wins from 33 wins. It completely discounts the fact that Nogueira was varying his subs rather than always relying on the guillotine, it completely discounts that Nogueira was subbing a higher calibre of opposition, it completely discounts that Nogueira was a more rounded fighter and had other ways of winning fights by using his boxing etc, and it completely discounts that Nogueira was a higher class sub fighter (3rd degree black belt vs purple belt).

Similarly, Tito may have used his more, but it doesn't at all mean his was automatically better because of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
Laugh at it all you want but Ken Tito WAS a super fight and Ken was giving the worst beating of his life. If you was watching MMA circa 2002/3 you'd know that and would't be making light of it just to make a semantic and specious point about what you perceive to be a more varied GnP.
So it was a 'superfight' because Ken was a big name from back in the day and both men had big mouths. I have no idea whatsoever what relevance this has to who has more deadly GnP between Tito and Jones. Jones would've ****ing murdered Ken in about 4 nanoseconds as soon as his fight with Shamrock hit the ground, but I'm not even going down that road as this is all pretty irrelevant IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
When Jones does what Vovchancyn did to Inoue who he left in a hospital for 3 months with a swollen brain let me know.
Jones fractured Brandon Vera's face in three places on the ground. He didn't need to beat on him for a long time to do this, because his strikes are delivered with accuracy and venom.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scurlaruntings View Post
As the last i checked Shogun survived 5 rounds with your apparent 'flick of the wrist' on the ground.
Don't understand this comment.
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