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Old 07-14-2007, 02:35 AM   #34
Marciano Frazier
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Default Re: Moore's strategy in the Marciano fight

Originally Posted by Duodenum
True, but I'm not basing that on only one opponent's expressed opinion/experience. Moore himself stated immediately after his match with Marciano that, "He's the strongest boxer I ever fought. I don't know that he is the hardest hitter, but he certainly hits hard enough." It's intriguing to me that the Mongoose would express some doubt about the supremacy of punching power from an adversary who he had a warm relationship with, at the time they'd just competed against each other. After his career was over, Archie definitively asserted that the first right hand Yvon Durelle floored him with in their initial meeting was indeed that hardest punch he ever took in his career.

To be sure, Rocky had more than sufficient power for his needs. But two highly qualified and experienced opponents of Rocky have both stated that he was not the man who hit them the hardest. One opinion could perhaps be readily dismissed, but such a confluence of feedback on this subject as Lowry's and Moore's can give one more pause for thought.

Marciano himself indicated that he felt his two knockout punches against Walcott were the hardest punches he ever connected with.
Moore had never landed a knockout punch on himself that we're aware of, so Moore not being certain Marciano was the hardest hitter he'd ever fought would not provide any evidence that Moore himself hit harder than Marciano. Only Lowry's statements support that conclusion. Based on their careers and their respective results against their multiple common opponents, it seems reasonably evident that Marciano hit harder. And Moore's remark about the Durelle punch being the hardest he ever took is actually contradicted by his statements in a RING Magazine interview, for which he reported that Curtis "the Hatchetman" Sheppard hit him the hardest of all his opponents.

And yes, some of Marciano's opponents didn't feel that he had hit him the hardest out of everyone they'd faced, but again, this needs to be looked at in context-
First, many experienced and qualified opponents who faced Marciano did consider him the hardest hitter they'd ever fought(among them Freddie Beshore, Keene Simmons, and Walcott). Some experienced and qualified opponents who fought Louis, Foreman, Tyson, Lewis, etc. didn't consider them the hardest hitters they'd ever fought(for example, Chuvalo said that Frazier hit him harder than Foreman, Alex Stewart said that Holyfield hit him harder than Foreman or Tyson, McCall said that Buster Douglas hit him harder than Lewis or Tyson, Walcott said after the first Louis fight that Gomez, Sheppard, Ray, and Murray hit him harder than Louis, Holmes, Holyfield, Ruddock, etc. all said that Tyson was not the hardest hitter they ever fought and that different opponents hit harder, etc.).
If we were to take all the testimony about who hit the hardest or hit harder from all the common opponents of all the champions, we would have a truckload of contradictory statements; for example, Rex Layne(who fought Marciano and fought exhibitions against Louis) said that Louis hit him harder than Marciano, but Jersey Joe Walcott, Freddie Beshore and Keene Simmons said Marciano hit them harder than Louis.

A fighter doesn't land his hardest punch, or even throw his hardest punch, in every fight. Sometimes one guy may have landed an especially hard punch on an opponent while another guy who normally hits harder will not have connected with such a blow. Some fighters' punching power changes and develops over the course of their careers. And our own perceptions of how hard a punch hit us are subjective and qualitative, and not a hard science.

Now, I'm not saying that the opinions of opponents aren't important in assessing punching power- I think they're very much so. But the fact that common opponents often contradict each other, contradict themselves(for example, Foreman said at various times that Lyle, ****ey and Ali[!] hit him the hardest, Marciano that Vingo, Walcott and Moore hit him the hardest, Moore that Sheppard and Durelle hit him the hardest, etc.), and say things which are pretty strongly at odds with the hard facts(like Buster Douglas hitting harder than Lewis or Holyfield hitting harder than Tyson, which are each claimed by a common opponent) demonstrates that they need to be taken with a good grain of salt and interpreted in context. I hope I've illustrated reasonably well why one common opponent's statement on the subject doesn't really provide good reason to think there is a serious possibility that Moore was a harder hitter than Marciano.
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