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Old 10-08-2012, 04:08 AM   #19
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Default Re: sonny liston vs jack johnson.....

Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
There you go again.....First off no one living has seen most of the Johnson fights you are alluding to. You try to diminish the O'Brien match by saying no one alive has seen it ( gee I wonder why ) then list other fights not on video as some proof for Johnson dealing with good jabbers? Do you realize the double standards you create?

The only filmed one listed is Willard. As slow and clumsy as he was, Willard landed his share on the outside in the flimed rounds. Its a given that Liston would do much better. Willard a good jabber, you say? Wow.

How is the O'Brien fight meaningless? Johnson was in his prime and the new champion. O'brien's jab got to Johnson, and multiple newspapers will tell you this.

Johnson wasn't close Ali in movement skills, nor did he have the reach or chin to deal with Liston as Ali did. In this match Johnson is meat.
Multiple news papers tell me Johnson bundled O Brien around whenever he could get near enough to the fleeing challenger .The fight means zero to me, simply because Johnson could not lose unless he was stopped, since O Brien had no real power, this was not not going to happen .
It was a six rounds no decision affair

"Three or four times during the mixes-up, O'Brien was roughed to the floor, and once ge got tangled in the ropes." (Philadelphia Inquirer)
Philadelphia Inquirer scored for Johnson. Wilkes-Barre Times Leader had O'Brien winning three rounds, with two even, and 5th round to Johnson (same report was printed in NY Sun and Washington Herald). NY Times ruled it a draw. Wire in multiple newspapers (for example, San Francisco Call) had it a draw. Trenton Times reported that the referee stated he thought O'Brien the winner by a shade.
Sports editor of Philadelphia Inquirer in May 23 issue wrote: "A half dozen writers, for instance, gave Johnson the credit of having won the bout, but no two of them agreed as to the distance by which he won, and if you read all these accounts you must have come to the conclusion that he won any distance from a whisker to a city block. And it was the same with the able gentlemen who espoused the O'Brien cause. Some declared that he won all the way, and that but for his willingness to take the initiative there would have been no milling at all, while others gave him the decision solely for the splendid showing he made against such a tremendous physical handicap."

Johnson forgot about his old friends? Langford and Johnson detested one another and Jeannette spent his career disparaging the man who beat him multiple times.
You will find several complimentary quotes about Langford and Jeannette attributed to Johnson , I challenge you to find one from either that is complimentary to him .

Both picked Jeffries to beat him, and both looked like complete ****holes after Johnson kicked the **** out of Jeffries.
McVey was a close friend of Johnson's,and seconded him on numerous occasions, he also lived with him for awhile .and Johnson paid for his funeral.
Johnson beat the drum for several black fighters including his sparring partner Kid Cotton, it is untrue that he resented other black heavyweights ,as his close friendship with McVey attests.
Summing up , Johnson owed Langford ,and Jeannette **** all.

Johnson was out partying the night before the O Brien fight , he did little or no training for it because he knew he did not have to . But you have a good time masturbating about it.

Using O Brien as a stick to beat Johnson is as ridiculous as castigating a 37 years old Johnson for not fighting Wills in 1915 Johnson lost his crown in April of that year that gives a window of less than 4 months for him to defend against Wills in a match that would have drawn pea nuts.
Wills was a onetime sparring partner for Johnson , but Johnson sacked him because he could not handle the punishment.

You conveniently omit the fact that Johnson broke his arm in the Battling Johnson fight.

Oh, and Battling Jim drew with Jeannette just 7 months after he drew with the one armed Johnson, and he again drew with him 4 months after that ,then a year later Battling Jim beat Jeannette, in NONE of these fights did Jeannette have a broken arm.

Incidentally in Nov 1914 Wills was kod by a fat Langford, and in Dec outpointed over 20 by McVey, in a May 1915 fight with McVey , Wills won just one of the 10 rounds.

O Brien was a fast, mobile, in and out boxer who lacked power , and was strictly defensive ,sounds just like Liston doesn't it?

Why do you compare Johnson to Ali?

Willard was noted for his jab and film of him in action confirms it.[Frank Moran & Floyd Johnson].
The fighters I named are described as good jabbers in the information available about them ,if you choose to dismiss ,this no one will be surprised or care, because as McGrain stated, you have zero credibilty on the subject of John Arthur Johnson.

Last edited by mcvey; 10-09-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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