Originally Posted by johnmaff36
ha ha! thats what i get for trying to type fast and not checking my reply before i post. Of course your right Lyle beat earnie, i meant to say he fought him between M.A. and G.F. My point was that Shavers fought a better version of lyle than Cooney.
That aside, i still fail to see what your basing your argument on.
Oh and BTW, i never mentioned Ali saying anything about anyone
EDIT. Ive just re-read your reply post and most of it seems to be a reply to things that i never stated one way or another.
I never mentioned anything specific about when Norton 'went', in fact i think i just stated he was coming of a gallant losing effort to Holmes. I never said he 'was gone' immediately before the cooney fight, i never said anything one way or another. In fact i specifically said 'not that im saying he wasnt slipping', so not only do i fail to see where you base your argument on (not that im saying your wrong, you may well be right) but i also fail to see what the points you make in your reply, have got to do with what i posted?
Or maybe we just have our wires crossed
My point was that Shavers also fought a badly faded version of a fighter in Ali, but for some reason this always seems to be glossed over whilst with fighters like Cooney or Tyson it's used to downplay their achievements.
I won't argue that Norton was past his best when Cooney got to him, but it still doesn't take away from the evident power Cooney displayed in that fight. If you're discussing who'd win at their best, then such things as primes come into the equation. When talking about punching power, I don't think it matters as much. If you're getting punched so hard you lose consciousness then things like whether you were prime or past prime or ringrusty or whatever are irrelevant.
Shavers fought a better version of Lyle but he also failed to knock him out. I don't see how that works in his favour, yet you'll constantly hear it being brought up. Ditto the Holmes knockdown.
I also don't consider his TKO of Norton as devastating as Cooney's demolition job. He was hitting him with a lot more shots and had to knock him down three times to get the stoppage.
Once again I'm not debating who beat the better version of Norton at the time, I'm debating who knocked him out worse, and to me the obvious answer is Cooney.