Originally Posted by McGrain
I was thinking about how, in boxing (and indeed MMA) a fighter can have real speed and good technique but still show very little in the way of power as far as punches go. That is, some fighters, like Shavers, don't throw with fantastic technique or with real speed and they down opponents like they're armed with shotguns. Other guys, say Kid Gavilan, throw with real speed and superb technique but are never more than stinging punchers. Even Ivan Calderon. Check him out against Nelson Dieppa or someone, he's throwing hard punches very fast with good power technique (torque, punching through) but not even making a dent.
What I want to ask is, is this in any way reflected in MMA? You can throw knees in this sport - is a knee a knee is a knee, or do some knees carry "natural" power, regardless of technique?
How about kicks? I'm less interested in kicks but if anyone has anything interesting please add it.
IMO, no a KNEE is not a KNEE. Here is the scoop, POWER is created from many aspects, two of them being LEVERAGE and TORQUE. Same for PUNCHEs. Ivan Calderon for instance is fast handed, HOWEVER, his HANDSPEED is ATHLETIC and his technique favours SPEED over using LEVERAGE to create TORQUE. WHY ? Because to use LEVERAGE and alot of TORQUE one must SACRIFICE a SPLIT second "BEFORE" the punch is DELIVERED. Thus the hand speed once the punch begins could be just as FAST with leverage and powerful torque, However, it wont ARRIVE on TARGET as FAST because of the SPLIT SECOND delay setting up the POWER. Sugar Ray was like this, he could in fairness hit pretty dam hard when he set, however, he only did that in RARE situations choosing instead to use his AWESOME hand speed from his natural ability not overly focused on LEVERAGING his punches with power like say Tommy Hearns did. So same thing applies to knees in this department.
As well,, just like PUNCHEs a KNEE and where and when it connects is CRITICAL. Some knee's that look brutal and hit cleanly dont knock a dude down, YET other knees that dont look so BRUTAL will knock a dude flat. Many reasons, primary reason being, just like a PUNCH if it CONNECTs too EARLY or too LATE in the extension the POWER delivered can VARY significantly. If too early, the head absorbs the initial IMPACT and then is PUSHED via the EXCELLERATION of the FORCE within the punch while EXTENDING. This can make a fighter's head SNAP back in such a way it appears he has a taken a HUGE BLOW, however, the IMPACT of the BLOW would RATTLE the brain FAR FAR less. Same with a FULL EXTENDED PUNCH or KNEE, if the IMPACT takes place too late with full extention the FORCE of IMPACT will be SIGNIFICANTLY less. In a KNEE this can come into PLAY even more especially with fighters that are not really skilled using a knee. The reason it comes into play with a KNEE even more is because of GRAVITY and more so FLEXIBILITY. Most fighters to some degree when in a FULL EXTENTION with a knee will have VERY LITTLE power in even brutal looking knees as the final 6 plus inches of EXTENTION the knee will be slowly down dramatically when compared to the final 6 inches of a PUNCH witch will not slow down so dramatically until the last inch or so. This happens as ones FLEXIBILITY when raising a knee will be PULLING back on its force NATURALLY within the last several inches of its extention. This also applies to kicks.
Thus the CRITICAL point about KNEEs and or PUNCHEs is the IMPACT that is created at point of contact. If that point of CONTACT the excelleration of speed and FORCE combine at the PERFECT moments a relatively non brutal looking STRIKE can stagger a fighter and vice versa. Not to mention the point of impact upon the fighter such as TEMPLE, chin, forehead and the angle the strike connects can deliver all the force directly into JOLTING the brain as well it can at a slightly different angle deliver alot of the force not directly into the brain even if the fighters HEAD appears to brutally be moved. Picture throwing a rock at someones head and it hitting the top of their head and flying over their head continuing 30 feet past. Then picture that same rock hitting some dude in the forehead and it stops boucing back in the opposite direction it came. The rock that flys past has NOT DELIVERED its full force to the poor sucker that just got hit in the head with a ROCK. It could leave a wicked gash and mouse on ones head as the IMPACT at site of contact effected the AREA with force, however, the IMPACT VIBRATIONs would not be DIRECTED so significantly into the BRAIN thereby creating that worst of all impacts those being DISCOMBOBULATION, this FREAKs fighters out in more ways then just physically. First, when tagged with a brain jolt the first sense that comes back to the fighter is CONFUSION, as in "WHAT THE HELL JUST HAPPENED?" ,,,, WHY? The mind blacked out and lost equilibrium for a spliit second at the point of impact.
Look at the Silva vs Belfort fight, that kicked destroyed Vitor because Silva COMMITTED to it very very CASUALLY and hammered Vitor with it at basically a PERFECT ANGLE of EXTENSION and FORCE and Vitor crumbled. That same kick if lets say Vitor adjusted to it and moved backwards/sideways away from it even 6 inches could have resulted in a kick to the chin that was basically harmless relatively speaking.
A good knee delivered on target with a good impact can take even the most iron chinned opponents down and right out.