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Old 11-02-2012, 03:37 PM   #588
bailey
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Part 2.

I've read your link, and what does it say exactly? It says Frank was going to New York for discussions, and that's it. Roy's representatives probably also had brief discussions with Tarver's team aswell, around the same time.

Once again, Joe was just a possibility, until Murad had a definite answer on Ruiz. As soon Roy got the green light, Joe was dismissed. But in your world, that was a duck right?
No I have always said I dont blame Jones for going after a HW title. That hasnt been in question. Thought you claim to be clever? The point was Calzaghe did pursue a fight with Jones
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His choices were,

To fight for a version of the heavyweight title.

To fight Tarver in a grudge fight, at his weight.

To fight Joe, who was relatively unknown, who fought at a different weight.
Have YOU had a bang on the head? We have agreed on this a while ago. Nobody blames Jones for going to HW, point was Calzaghe pursued the fight
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You SHOW ME where Roy confirms that Joe was chasing him for 5 or 6 years. He said "I know he's wanted to fight me for a while" That doesn't PROVE that Joe chased him for 5 or 6 years!
So now Roy hasnt said the words 5/6 years but says a while...
Loudon that is pathetic. Jones admitted Calzaghe wanted to face him and i showed you links from 00, 01 and 02. Enough said
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All he did, was mention Roy's name. What did he do after? Did he move up, or go to America? NO! He continued to fight at 168 in Britain.
How many more times Loudon.
He called him out and made an offer.
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question
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My answer is, you need to go and see your GP.
So you couldnt answer any question
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In 2001, he was trying to get a fight with DM, and was under pressure from fans to try and make the Hopkins rematch. He was the unified 175 champ.
Didnt fight either of them then
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Do you seriously think, that Roy at the time, would have given a seconds thought to Joe's comments after he'd beaten McIntyre?
Read the links. Jones was talking of fighting him before that when Calzaghe was getting rid of Sheika and Woodhall, and again when Jones was beating Woods, so I would guess as that fight was between those that Jones would have taken notice
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The fact that Joe didn't fight at 175, or in America, speakes volumes! That fact shows me just how serious he was. He was going up in 2001, but he didn't get there. In 2004, he himself said, I know I have to move up. Barry McGuigan in the same year, said he's got to move up at this point. He didn't get there til 2008!
Once again
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question
Whats McGuigan got to do with it? Are you that influenced by commentators? Suggest you start turning the volume down when you watch boxing in future, or else you will have identical scorecards as who ever is talking
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Haha! It'd got Roy's favourite icing on. If Collins and Joe had've known the recipe, Roy might have fought them both for free. He loves his cake!

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That's IRRELEVANT!
No it isnt. You were saying Calzaghe was unknown and not worthy but you dont think its relevant that some of Jones opponents were even lesser known
Double standards Loudon
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For the millionth time, beating Brewer and Jiminez, at a weight divison below, wasn't going to get people interested in a Roy Jones fight at 175. If you can't see that, you're stupid!
Yet O Grant at MW beating R Rhode and E R Sena does get Jones interested.
Brewer was more known than any of those names and as said there was also Mitchell, though you like to forget that, and other names Jones knew like Eubank, Woodhall, Sheika etc
But sure O Grant beating R Rhodes did the trick. Got it
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A ridiculous comparison!
Not really. Jones didnt fight the champ
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Joe was relatively unknown, and fought in a different weight class.
As said, so was O Grant
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Roy was considered the best fighter on the planet, and was the unified 175 champ!
Picking up vacated title opponents from DM
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DM would have got his opportunity, but he wouldn't go to America for the fight.
DM was champ and making big money in Germany, bigger than what could be made in America with bigger crowds.
Jones out rightly wouldnt go to Germany
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Why?
Because they are different countries.
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You really don't get it do you.
think its you that doesnt.
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He needed to put groundwork in like Ricky, or he needed DM's belt to tempt Roy into the fight.

We're going around in circles, like the vicious circle Joe found himself in.

Roy wasn't interested in 2002, because Joe wouldn't have been a big fight.


HOWEVER,

if Joe had have gone to the U.S. earlier, and made a name for himself, and put in good performances, then they might have have been interest in the fight. If fans had've wanted to have seen the fight, if there'd been a big demand, it would have been a more attractive proposition for Roy and HBO.

Likewise if, and it's a big if, but If, Joe could have taken DM's belt, then Roy would have wanted to have fought Joe to have all of the belts. Roy wanted to fight DM, he just wasn't prepared to go to Germany because he said things like "I don't think a knockout would guarantee me a win over there."

If Joe had've been an attractive proposition to Roy, HBO, and the general American public, then things would have been different.

Joe wanted to fight Roy for big money, which was fair enough, but he wasn't prepared to do the groundwork like Ricky Hatton.
I get what you are trying to say, but you dont answer
He was not going to lose his title and earning potential for a fight that might not happen. Jones had to agree to fight him which he didnt. Same as Hopkins didnt.
Once again, why lose a belt and money unless it is definate?
Stop ducking that question
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So to summarize, what you're saying is, if Joe had've been guaranteed really good money, he'd have been willing to go to the U.S. and fight Roy.
I cant say what the money would be and once again YOU DONT KNOW.
He wanted the Jones fight or Hopkins fight to be guaranteed, nothing wrong with that as anything else he would have been losing money.
What cant you see in that?

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HOWEVER, he was never going to be guaranteed to get a shot at Roy for good money.
HOW DO YOU KNOW? YOU DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE MONEY SITUATION IF IT WAS DOABLE OR NOT. YOU DONT KNOW
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BECAUSE, he wasn't known enough at the time. He was stuck in a vicious circle, like the one I'm in with you.
But O Grant, R Frazier, C Woods etc were known enough
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If he'd have gone to America in 1999, when De Bella had opened the door for him, things may have turned out very different. But as you know, at the time of De Bella's offer, he said he wasn't chasing Roy, or wanting tough fights
1999 he hadnt been a world champ that long and may have said that, but soon changed his mind as in 00, 01 and 02 he was calling him out. If he did make that comment, I expect there was more to it, as he spent alot of time as proven in the links trying to get Jones in the ring. Also he fought abroad on the Tyson undercard on what I think was HBO but dont know that for sure and called out Jones. Not just at the end of that fight but alot with media before, saying Jones would be found wanting against him. That was mocking, then put in a top performance and called Jones out again.
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