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Old 11-02-2012, 03:48 PM   #590
Loudon
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Default Re: If YOU were Joe Calzaghe, would you come out of retirement to fight Andre Ward?

Part 2.

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It did make sense, fighting Jones earned Joe $10m. I'm not sure how much he would have gotten to fight Tarver or Johnson, but we can agree it would have been substantially less!
I'm not sure how much he'd have got either.

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I don't think he embarrassed himself, he was selling a fight. Roy and his camp were saying Roy was sharp again and fighting well. Roy was still a good fighter in 2008, a long way off his best, but still a good fighter
I respect that he was trying to sell the fight, and it would have been ok, had he not dismissed him earlier on in the same year. But really, there was no going back after what he'd said in Feb/March.

Then you'd got Steve Bunce after Roy's fight with Trinidad saying "Well, Roy's got to do a lot more than that to get Joe in the ring."

Fast forward to November and he's saying the same as Joe "Roy's looking sharp, and he's back etc."

Fair enough, I know it's his job, but it was cringeworthy.

Even If Joe had've said "Roy's past his peak, but he's still very dangerous etc" That would have been ok. But he actually said in 2007 that "a fight with Roy would be pointless!" and then in 2008 he said "He'd be disappointed if Roy was to be his last fight."

When you've made comments like that, there's just no turning back.

There's nothing you could say, to undo that, apart from being brutally honest, and publicly admitting that you'd cashed out. Other than that, you'd just embarrass yourself.

I think Joe definitely embarrassed himself.

Coach Merk had to do everything he could to try and get Roy in the right mindset.


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I think Joe relished the payday he got from Jones. Pavlik doesn't have a fanbase to compare to Roy's. He would not have gotten $10m to fight Kelly Pavlik, nobody ever has or will. Look at the interest Calzaghe-Jones generated, compared to Hopkins-Pavlik. Hopkins was far more known in the US than Calzaghe, yet people talked about Jones-Calzaghe.
Well my opinion is, Kelly didn't have Roy's fanbase, but the PPV numbers would have been much much higher for that fight. It all depends on what Joe's percentage would have been. But I think he'd have made more from Pavlik, even if a big promoter had been involved.

I don't think that Roy's fight with Joe created huge interest. They had problems selling the tickets, and the PPV numbers were poor. Maybe old fans were sentimental towards Roy, and hoped for one last great performance?

A pavlik fight definitely would have been a better fight.

Joe didn't get any respect for beating Roy, because it'd been done 4 years earlier.

If Joe had've hammered Pavlik like Hopkins, he'd have got huge respect, and would have been better though of.


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ok mate we'll agree to disagree here
No problem.


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why would Ward be seen as the bigger threat? He's a solid, awkward fighter who works his way inside, and tries to maul opponents on the inside, but at the same time he's feather fisted.
I think just because he's a better fighter than Jeff.

It depends what you class as a threat?

There's more chance of being hurt by Jeff, because Jeff had a fantastic, dangerous hook, that Andre doesn't have.

But I'm referring to the threat of losing.

I suppose it's like Nigel Benn, and James Toney for Roy.

Nigel Benn was so dangerous!

But I think Roy would have seen James as the biggest threat, because he was the better fighter.

It's only my opinion of course, but I think Joe would have had his zero threatened much more by Andre than Jeff.

Jeff was tough, but he's not a boxer, he's a fighter. Andre's not a fighter, he's a boxer. Joe could outbox Jeff, but could he outbox Andre? Possibly?

I'm certain that Joe would have feared Andre more.

I respect your opinion though.

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Lacy was a KO artist, who was tearing through the division. Here's a guy who could put your lights out with one shot, being built up as the SMW Tyson
As above, he was a powerhouse, but he couldn't match Joe for skill, like what Andre could.

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I think a Calzaghe would have figured Ward out and once he settles into the fight, and took him apart in a good fight. The Hopkins that Joe beat was better than Ward. If you look at Ward's best wins - Kessler and Froch, two guys who are flat footed and lack the athletic ability and ring IQ of a Calzaghe.
Fair enough, again I respect your opinion. Maybe we'll have a better idea, as Andre's career progresses.

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As said, we'll have to agree to disagree
No problem.


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I see, but in one thread I remember you stating that despite Joe being a great fighter, Jones would have never fought him in 2002 because he had no fanbase to speak of.

Dawson is good, but has no fanbase to speak of.

Yet you state Joe should have fought him. That seems unfair in the context
Fair point, but the circumstances are a little different.

Chad hasn't got a big fanbase, but everyone knows who he his. HBO, the casual fans etc, all know who Chad is.

Nobody in America knew much about Joe.

In 2002, nobody would have wanted to see that fight.

I think had Joe have decided to prolong his career, I think fans would have been interested in a Dawson fight.

But again, I get your point.


Thanks for taking the time to post up those links regarding Ward and Bute. I really appreciate that.

I wasn't aware of any of that.

I though it was Bute that wasn't interested. I'm surprised that Ward didn't push for the fight.

If Carl beats Bute again, where does that leave Ward?

I don't think he'd want to unify with Carl.

Surely he'd have to move up to 175?


Thanks for your great reply.

Just reply back whenever you can. There's no rush at all.


Regards, Loudon.
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