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Old 11-13-2012, 02:26 PM   #28
Unforgiven
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Default Re: Sonny Liston 'I Will Manage Floyd Patterson as Light-Heavyweight'

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Originally Posted by Lord Tywin View Post
Too funny. I could care less what Jose Torres had to say. If you spend enough time with a dog you will see he has intelligence. That doesnt mean he is intelligent enough to be a businessman.

Well, you asked ""Highly intelligent" ?? Who rated him highly intelligent?" ..... now you say "I could care less what Jose Torres had to say."


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You mention self made men like Rickard and Kearns but they made their fortunes in business. Liston didnt. They gave an indication that they had business acumen by actually succeeding in business. In addition to that they were from a completely different era when the majority of people, including those involved in business had little formal education.
So,
What you're saying is :
1. Self-made entrepeneurs with no formal education exist.
2. They prove their business acumen by succeeding in business.

YES, and who is saying Liston is a sure-thing to succeed in business ?
I'm not. I'm open-minded about the possibility, because it's impossible to say who can and who can't be a successful entrepreneur.
Even some of the most successful businessmen were very UNsuccessful businessmen at time, or to start with. Some even ended up that way.
Success is business isn't written in their genes.
Who knows how a Liston-Patterson partnership would have made out ?
None one except YOU is proclaiming to know anything about that.

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Don King is the exception to the rule in the current era and has ben called almost universally by those he deals with, including Ivy League grads the smartest man they ever met. Even before he got into boxing he was a numbers runner with his own business and had already fostered connections with powerful underworld figures that would help him for the next 20 years.

On the other hand Liston was a petty thug. Never used for anything more than his muscle. He was taken advantage of and used because of his brawn. How many of those mobsters he came in contact with like Vitale, and Carbo do you think said to themselves: "This guys talents are wasted in the ring, hes really smart, we need to set him up running these fighters for us." Im laughing as I write that.
Why would they say that ? To Carbo et al. boxing managers were not that much valuable than the fighters. They were just pawns. Liston was obviously an exceptionally good fighter.

Liston, reasonably, remarked that Patterson should be steered into the light-heavy division, and, reasonably, believed that Patterson could be better managed and advised than the men who let him Patterson manage himself into fighting Sonny Liston twice !

Nothing in Liston's comments suggest that he is professing to be a genius-manager, or was going to handle a whole stable of boxers. He just thought he could guide Patterson better than throwing him in with fighters such as himself (Sonny) when he has ZERO CHANCE of winning.


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What did Liston ever do to give any indication he had any acumen at all in business, promotion, matchmaking, training, or any other aspect of handling boxers?
Everyone starts somewhere.


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You talk of him being intelligent but inarticulate. You state he was brilliant and yet couldnt read or articulate an idea. Thats a pretty damning compliment.
I didn't state anything, I said he was regarded by people who knew him as intelligent.
You say he was "not too bright". Did you know him ?

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Would you want him drawing up your will, even if he could write? No? I didnt think so. So why would you allow him to plot your career course or negotiate contracts totalling hundreds of thousands of dollars? How would he even know what he was agreeing to? "Oh hold on, let me have my lawyer read this and then tell me what it says in third grade language..." Any bets on how long it takes Patterson to realize Liston is in so far over his head its comical?
Well, this is exactly how the boxing business operated. Yes, of course, a manager can employ a lawyer or a few to check the actual contracts.
Yes, men who can't read and write well have been shrewd negotiators.

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Patterson was ten times sharper than Liston why wouldnt he just manage himself?


Patterson DID manage himself. And got trounced by Liston twice, and humiliated, he looked like a child in there. That's precisely what inspired Liston's comment/offer.
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