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Old 11-17-2012, 06:35 AM   #25
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
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Default Re: Prime James J. Jeffries vs Jack Johnson

Quote:
Originally Posted by KuRuPT View Post
Johnson beats Jeffries Prime for Prime.. and it would be more competitive than close.
If you throw any possible excuses for Johnson losing pre 1905 ( Choysnki, Klondike, and Griffin ), he still has too many of them, to project a win over a prime Jeffries.


Johnson could not tame Marvin Hart in 1905. Major red flag. This was a high stakes match with the winner having a good chance to fight Jeffries next. Hart won. Jeffries said he would fight Hart if the public interest was there. It was not. Jeffries was above Hart on the level that Wlad or Vitlai is above anyone else today.

In 1909 Johnson was knocked down by a super middle in Ketchel. Once again in 1909 in a 4 round exhibition match, GunBoat Smith, who was close enough in size to Johnson had Johnson down and dazed to the point where Johnson's own manager halted the fight. And then another super middle in Jack O'Brien exposed Johnson by out boxing ( but not out slugging him ) in a 6 round mix opinion match.

In these three matches meetings ( Ketchel, Smith, and O'Brien ), Johnson was in fact exposed. And he was in his absolute prime in 1909. Call the GunBoat Smith meeting less significant because it wasn't an official match. I'll agree. But you have to agree with me that GunBoat who was not in the class of Jeffries as a hitter, made lil' Arthur see stars. If chins are best tested when they are hit, we know when happened here.


Of coruse Johnson at best is viewed as lucky to have survived the Jim Battling Johnson match in 1913 according to the NY times report, and on film he had very close match with a Moran.

If you saw Johnson's top 12 fighters, and throw out the washed up Jeffries he fought, Johnson thinks the guys Jeffries beat were better than the ones he beat.


As Champion, Johnson never fought or defeated prime versions of McVey, Jeanette, or Langford, so we have to seriously look at his struggles with tier two level contenders.

If you saw Johnson's top 12 fighters, and throw out the washed up Jeffries he fought, Johnson thinks the guys Jeffries beat were better than the ones he beat.

To clear up a misconception, Jeffries never said in context that he could not beat Johnson. He said if he was younger, he would have won.

Old, in active for 5 years, fighting in the desert ( never benefits the older fighter ), and having to re-shape his body from 300+ to 225, Jeffries won two rounds, and had a few other close ones before gassing out in the 13.
Had each man meet in their primes, I would pick Jeffries to win via TKO.
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