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Old 12-06-2012, 04:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Duran- Hagler / Camacho/ Panzienza. ATG ranking Question

Originally Posted by Balder View Post
About a 5 year difference if my memory holds correct betwen the Duran and Leonard fights.

Hagler was at his peak againt a lighter weight and older opponent in Duran, against Leonard hagler was clearly past his prime. And I think Hagler won that fight anyway.

Durans fight to me showed how much greater overall he is vs Leonard. I also think he beat Camacho and Leonard was destroyed by Camacho.

To a point I am rating Durans losses as indications of his greateness and I admit that is an issue. But again, I think he won against Camacho and Paz, and fought a much better Hagler than Leonard, and gave Hagler hell in the process.
The greatest fighters Leonard and Duran fought were Hearns,Benitez,Hagler each other. So against the elite greats Leonard record vs. them was 5-1-1 (3) and Duran was 1-5 (0) That shows a greater fighter? Those were the best guys each of them fought in their career. Hearns vs. the elites was 2-2-1 (1) and Hagler was 2-1 (1) and Benitez was 1-2 (0) So Duran did worse h2h against the top guys he is associated with Hagler,Hearns,Leonard,Benitez than any of them. Now look at his lightweight reign it was good. Very good. Esteban and Buchanan. Marcel. People will even try and say Dejesus was better than Benitez.. But as far as Roberto's lightweight reign-no Arguello, even though people will mention that Marcel beat Arguello. Fact is Marcel was not Arguello, and a win over Arguello at lightweight would have been a great win. or a win against Pryor in 1980 then moving up and fighting Ray. Even though I think had Roberto beaten Pryor in 1980, he would have then fought Ray in 1981, and by that point Ray would have been his experienced self and outboxed Duran as easily as he did in the rematch.

The difference between Duran and Leonard fights with Hagler was 3 years 5 months. The Hearns fight with Hagler was only 1 year 5 months after Duran. Not as long after as people think. The thing about losing to Hagler for Duran and Leonard beating Hagler obviously Leonard has a win and Duran does not. A win is always a win, and if you give Duran credit for the Hagler win you have to say he was fighting pretty well at the time like I said, which shows by his win over Moore and winning the 154 pound title. Which then makes legitimate the win over Duran by Hearns, which was a unification of the 154 pound title in mid 1984.

I don't know much about the Camacho and Pazienza fights except that everyone involved was over the hill at that point. I saw the fights but they were mostly marketable fights by name. Duran did not fight the prime Hector or Vinny and they did not fight a championship quality Duran. So it is hard to make any assumptions on those fights in the 1990s. The last championship skills shown by Duran was in 1989 when he beat Barkley. After that in 1991 he lost to Pat Lawlor (I know he avenged that loss later), but he went down fast after that. I give him credit for sticking around until 2001 and actually showing how he could carry 168 and had a big right hand as he always did.
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