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Old 12-08-2012, 06:11 PM   #93
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Default Re: Jeffries v Quarry

Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
See post above.Then tell me they were not more deserving challengers than those he actually fought.

In fact tell me what in their current form persuades you that Corbett,Finnegan,Kennedy ,and Munroe deserved title shots?

Thats 50% of Jeffries title defences by the way.
Not sure if it means anything, but Kennedy had just drawn twice with Hank Griffin, who was about to go on to defeat Jack Johnson. And who had technically lasted four rounds with Jim Jeffries.

on this particular date, Denver Ed Martin, who was building into a great challenger, had a 10 round DQ win over fred russell and who had already been knocked out by Jeffries training partner bob Armstrong.

Frank Childs was probably the best credentialled colour fighter at this time. He had defeated Bob Armstrong, Klondike Haines, Fred Russell, Peter Everett, and George Byers. Although, on the down side, he had just fought two draws with Jack Bonner (famous himself for fighting a draw with the much criticised jack Finnegan), and he also fought a draw with none other than Joe Kennedy. I guess this makes him realistically no better or worse challenger than Kennedy (and arguably even Finnegan). It may be of some interest that an inexperienced Jeffries is rumoured (by way of News reports) to have fought and beat Frank Childs though obviously there is no real proof of this.

Jack Johnson in September of 1901 had just been knocked out by Joe Choynski and was about to fight a losing series with Hank Griffin.

Hank Griffin wouldnt have been a bad choice as the best coloured fighter. He had beaten Jack Munroe but he had also only drawn with Kennedy and was knocked down several times by Jeffries himself, so i doubt this would be creditable. Certainly no more so than Kennedy.

McVey, Jeanette and Langford had not yet debuted.

Bob Armstrong, who had knocked out Denver Ed Martin and fought an ND with him and lasted the distance with Goddard, had also recently lost to Frank Childs, Mexican Peter Everett Ed Dunkhorst and Jeffries himself.

I am not sure what other coloured contenders were around. Maybe Joe Butler, who did have wins over Slavin, Dunkhorst, and possibly Henry Baker, as well as controversial knockdown fests with Stelzner, Bonner. But he had also been KOd by Armstrong and Childs, plus he seems to have had a year off from fighting at this time.

I cant see any others. Utah Bob Thompson seemed to win a fair few fights, but was losing to less than world class fighters by this time, and couldnt really be considered a legitimate world champion challenger, i would have thought.

Are there any others at this point in time? Old as he was maybe joe Choynski, who had just KOd Jack Johnson was the best challenger. he did have wins over maher, Russell and ODonnell, even though he was getting long in the tooth, and you would think his losses to Walcott, McCoy and Sharkey really do write him off as a legitimate challenger. In fact, realistically, Kid McCoy who had beaten ODonnell, Maher, Choynski, Creedon, Bonner and had the controversies with Corbett and Ryan probably was quite comfortably the standout challenger at this time. It is actually quite strange that there isnt a bigger outcry that he wasnt given a chance considering the claims for others that are pushed over 100 years later.

Walcott i suppose is a coloured name and that is a big win,
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