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Old 12-13-2012, 10:54 AM   #107
general zod
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Default Re: Classic James Toney stuff from 1993 haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Depends on how he'd approach a fight against Toney. For starters, Toney wouldn't bring the pressure that Benn did,
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/a...h26m12s237.png
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/a...h25m59s108.png
Benn was not putting Eubank under pressure during their rematch. He was trying to outbox Eubank in the middle of the ring. It was Eubank's sloppy footwork that caused him to fall
You clearly have not watched that fight
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
and he'd be wary of his counter punching, as opposed to Collins and Calzaghe who weren't regarded as counter punchers
Collins was primarily a counter puncher, which tells me how many fights of Collins you have actually watched.

During his first fight with Eubank he took the center of the ring drew leads from Eubank and counter-punched. Eubank never looked good against counter-punchers. In fact his record should be 0-3 against them which tells you how well he would of done against Toney
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
(though Calzaghe developed that skill later in his career).
Calzaghe was not a counter puncher
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Toney as a SMW from the fight with Roy - clearly carrying excess fat
That's just plain stupid. That picture is what Toney looked like after he had put on 17 lbs of water weight. This is what he looked like before he rehydrated using a IV drip
http://i987.photobucket.com/albums/a...1h41m38s25.png
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Mccallum won the first 5 rounds easy, as Collins was getting picked off with ease. When Collins became aggressive and a little reckless, he pressured Mike and won rounds
point 1: You haven't watched any of Collins fight, which is why you didn't know he was a counter puncher
point 2: That's one of my previous posts which you have just reworded
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
I agree Johnson was better, but Collins gave him a hard fight, it was close certainly to an extent. You said Tiberi was the same level as Collins, I disagree
How can you when you haven't even watched any of Collins fights?
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
True, but starting at MW and then ending up at LHW isn't the same as starting at LHW
Eubank moved up just fine. You do know he had around 4 fights at that weight, right? Griffin at the end of the day was a counter-puncher, better than Collins and Schommer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
That was a close fight, but not a good example. It's pretty widely accepted that JMM won, I had him winning 115-113 when I watched it, though I've seen people's scorecards that have JMM winning 117-111, a few had it for Pac.
No, it wasn't. Jmm should of won by a 8-4 type decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Why would I have a Toney-Thadzi scorecard with me now.
You haven't watched that fight. You have just gone onto boxrec and seen the official decision. The fact that you are unable to show any evidence that you have watched that fight tells me all I need to know.

My scorecard

Round Toney Thadzi
1 10 9
2 10 9
3 10 9
4 10 10
5 10 9
6 9 10
7 10 10
8 10 9
9 9 10
10 10 9
11 9 10
12 9 10

Total 116-114 Toney
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
At the end of the day, it was a close fight, certainly not a robbery and not many argue that Thadzi didn't deserve it. It is what it is.
Who cares what other people think? Either you have your own opinion on the fight or you do not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
At the end of the day, Toney had no business losing to him. It would be the equivalent of Mayweather losing to someone like Matthew Hatton
All fighters who fight a lot turn in lacklustre performances from time to time. At the end of the day he got outworked, not out-boxed. Tiberi was offered an immediate rematch and he chose to retire instead.

Mayweather lost the first Castillo fight
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
True, Eubank-Schommer was embarrassing, Eubank had no business losing to him either.
Eubank got out-boxed by Schommer, not outworked which is very different from what happened to Toney. This tells us that Schommer had better skills than Eubank. It should be pointed out that Eubank never fought let alone beat a top fighter with an unconventional style. Hence the fact he missed the following: Nunn, R.Johnson, Jones, Toney, McCallum, Kalamby, Graham and Liles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Toney called Eubank out when they were at SMW, not MW. They would have fought at SMW. Not really sure how much clearer I can make that for you?
Before you claimed that Toney was not as his best at smw. I responded to your post and now you are trying to distance yourself from it? The fact is that at smw Toney was:
-Ranked no 1 by the Ring, above Eubank
-Made the p4p top ten, which meant he was widely considered to be elite
-Regularly turned in dominant performances

None of the above ever applied to Eubank at smw
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
Styles make fights
The fact that a lot of C+ fighters had the style to give Eubank fits tells you a lot about him. He should of lost the following fights: Benn II, Sherry, Thornton and Schommer. Watson was clearly the better fighter during their rematch
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
I know Eubank struggled with Collins, but Collins brought non stop pressure
NO
Collins stayed in the middle of the ring and counter-punched. He scored with jabs and right hand leads. Stepped out of range to avoid Eubank's lunging attacks, then stepped into range and landed right hand counters
What fight were you watching?
Quote:
Originally Posted by knockout artist View Post
- Toney was more skilled and didn't fight anything like that - which is what would suit Eubank more
You obviously have not watched Toney-McCallum I
Collins - Eubank I

Offense:
Collins: Jabbed and scored with right hand crosses
Toney: Used the same offense against McCallum I

Defense:
Collins: Stepped out of range to avoid Eubank telegraphed right hand leads then stepped into range and countered.
Toney: Shouldered rolled then came back with right hand counters

If you want to know how Toney-Eubank plays out all you have to do is watch Collins-Eubank I. The fact that Eubank ducked Toney at smw tells you that Eubank himself did not believe he could win such a fight

Toney wide UD
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