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Old 12-14-2012, 05:20 PM   #1338
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
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Default Re: The all things technical thread.

You make some good points about Haye, PK. But the problem for Haye in that fight against Wlad, he had a knife in a gun fight, in other words he just didn't have the tools to win against a better, bigger guy. It was just that simple. There's no other way Haye could've fought, IMO he gave himself the best chance to win. You mentioned Benn. He's not Nigel Benn or Joe Frazier, he can't fight that type of fight.

Haye is a ambush, scampering type of fighter. That was never ganna be enough to beat Wlad. He was trying to walk Wlad into something big, but that was always ganna be a long shot. He tried to take Wlad into deep waters, then catch him coming in late. The problem for Haye, was Wlad was not really burning out, because he was stalking at his own pace. For example Ali carried Liston too fast when he was trying to stalk him, so he burned him out. Haye didn’t burn Wlad out, he sort of burned himself out. His game plan was solid though. He just fought the better fighter.

As for the jabs. You're right. Haye didn't jab enough, but thats not what his game is predicated on. He could've jabbed all night, he was never ganna out jab Wlad. The jab would've been more important if he was fighting a pressuring type of fight and pressing the action, but that's not who Haye is and he would've got stopped if he fought a pressing fight.

Wlad was also fighting an exellent fight. He was controlling distance and more important controlling Haye's lead hand. That's one of the reasons Haye couldn't jab effective, but was relying on single power shots. Haye just didn't have a second phase of attack. What i mean by that is he would launch his first offense, but when Wlad leaned back, or took a step backward, Haye didn't have second phase of attack to follow up. Mainly because Wlad would make him hit air and had good footwork. So he wasn't there for a left hook follow up after a right hand attempt, for example. And Haye is one of those guys who needs to hit you with the first phase to get the second phase going. Otherwise he falls off balance because he commits so much.

Wlad was just drowning him with a passive aggressive style, behind his lead hand and reach. It was aggressive because he was constantly pressuring him, cutting the ring. And it was passive because he was still waiting for him to do something. With his attributes he could afford to do that against someone like Haye who wasn't ganne pressure him or force him to fight on the inside and break him down.

Wlad was at the edge of range in a good distance. Haye couldn't reach him, but he could reach Haye. Being taller and longer made this easier.

The keys for Wlad were.

- His lead hand.

- His footwork. He won the fight on footwork and less on punching. He pushed forward slowly, inched backwards quickly, and then went forward again. The footwork also acted as his defense even when his lead wasnt't always covering up or deflecting.

- Control of distance.

All in all it was just asking too much of Haye to win that fight. Short of a extremely well timed hollywood punch, it was never ganna happen.

I think we shouldn't be too harsh on Haye in that fight. He actually fought the best he could in the circumstances, with what he had and what he was facing. He made Wlad look bad at times, Haye's defense was also pretty impressive too. He didn't get caught too clean often.

Last edited by slip&counter; 12-14-2012 at 05:33 PM.
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