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Old 01-02-2013, 09:12 AM   #1
anj
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Default 'Oscar De La Hoya's ATG ranking is similar to Pernell Whitaker's ATG ranking'

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTZc0dGjp_Y[/ame]

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http://www.eastsideboxing.com/forum/...s&pollid=35217
- This is where his fans rate Whitaker on ATG list.

I'd like to settle the score once and for all for Oscar doubters. I wrote in threads regarding Oscar, but I'd prefer to collate it all together.
Oscar is greater than what you see on boxrec.

Disclaimer:
I have Whitaker around 20th ish at worst, and Oscar around 30-35th. A lot of what I am doing is making a case for Oscar, it doesn't mean I think he is greater than Whitaker. Whitaker's overall ability is greater.


Oscar's resume
W Whitaker
(will explain later)

W Trinidad (Outlanded ATG Felix Trinidad by almost 150 punches even after Trinidad's domination in the latter rounds where Oscar hardly landed a punch. Oscar was told to run away by his corner to protect his lead).

W Mosley Rematch (Mosley on Steroids. Not Oscar's prime weight, not Mosley's prime weight either - but the steroids helped Mosley with that A win against a roided 2003 version of Mosley is a huge win.

W Roided Vargas (Roided Vargas = one of the very best at 154, beating Quartey and Winky. Not very good after he was busted - Two different fighters. Winky was in better condition for the Vargas fight than the Vasquez fight (the guy who Whitaker beat)).

W G.Hernandez (Genaro was undefeated, prime, only 3lbs heavier than usual, not 5lbs, ATG in his weight class, very underrated)

W Quartey (As the judges officially call it. More people have Oscar winning. Watch the fight closely, were Ike Quartey's jabs even landing as much as you originally thought? I don't think so. The knockdown on Quartey made the difference too.)

W Gonzalez (undefeated, considered as good as J.C.Chavez and Ricardo Lopez at the time. Robbed against J.C.Chavez after the Oscar fight, only because he lacks power to get a KO. He was a finished fighter after his loss to Tszyu, going on to lose against a cab driver a year after).

W J C Chavez (Still a 'good' fighter at the time)

W Casteilljo

W Molina
(defended his title 10 times, got owned by Oscar).

W Leija (Azumah's and the great Espinoza's daddy)

W Gatti

W Carr
W Campas
W Bredahl
W Paez
(Any credit you give to Whitaker beating Paez, you must give to Oscar)
W Mayorga
W Camacho
- This is a STACKED resume, from start to finish. Whitaker's resume - consists of about 6/7 decent fighters, that is all. Most of Whitaker's lightweight wins were the equivalent of Mayweather beating the likes of Juuko at super featherweight.
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Adressing Oscar's 'losses'
'But Oscar lost to Mayweather and Pacquiao'
1. Pacquiao and Mayweather beat the shell of the elite Oscar, not the real Oscar:
a. Oscar's drug problems became even worse, he had depression also as a result - drug use is one thing (Pernell also used to have cocaine), but to put it in the mix with depression is another thing.
b. Oscar's ring age was old, having been in so many big fights with great opposition from the start of his career.
c. We all know he wasn't the same fighter as he used to be.
c. Oscar was 35 years old when fighting Pac.
d. Oscar was drained from 154 to 145lbs catchweight. Understand that Oscar had been fighting comfortably at 154lbs since 2001! 7 years before the fight against Pacquiao.
e. Oscar was severely dehydrated, find out more about how beaten his body was before the fight with Pac. I give Pac the amount of credit I give Calzaghe for beating Roy Jones.
f. Besides, a lot of people have a prime ODLH beating Mayweather.

L Sturm - Who cares? Oscar had no business moving up to 160lbs! He was also past his prime at this point. No wonder why he got KO'd by Bernard Hopkins.

L Mosley I - Legit loss for Oscar, very close fight though. Beat him in the rematch. Personal thoughts:
After winning the rematch against Mosley, Oscar was never the same again. Mentally I believe he became very comfortable with his fame by then, he was getting money that the likes of Mosley and even Mayweather at the time can only dream of. He had life easier. Due to this mental effect, he was no longer in his prime.

Addressing Pernell Whitaker's losses:
PERNELL WHITAKER LOST to Felix Trinidad in the same way Oscar lost to Mayweather/Pacquiao (both past their prime).
Pernell also ARGUABLY lost to Wilfredo Rivera (a guy who Oscar destroyed) and Diosbelys Hurtado - watch the matches if you haven't seen them, then come back to me.

IMPORTANT POINT: Wake up guys, do you really think Whitaker was the same/similar fighter/in the same condition and drive etc. against De La Hoya as he was against Rivera and Hurtado? Do you really think prime Oscar would struggle against a version of Whitaker that arguably loses to these semi-journeymen? That's insulting on a great fighter and one of the fighters that helps Whitaker's own legacy. Whitaker stated he had zero motivation for the Hurtado and Rivera fights, so was sloppy. I don't really hold these arguable losses against him.

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Pernell vs De La Hoya fight
Pernell Whitaker in the Oscar fight looked as pretty much as good as prime in the Oscar fight. Pernell Whitaker in his own words even stated "I couldn't have performed any better" after the Oscar fight. After all, Pernell was still 33 during this fight which is not old by any means for a defensive fighter.
Oscar landed the better shots in the fight, nevertheless I can FULLY understand if people say 'this fight is a draw!'. This fight does a lot for Whitaker's greatness nevertheless. I do agree that Whitaker was 'on the way down' in terms of his performance ability.
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Shane Mosley at Lightweight - Making The Oscar Comparison
We say that Shane Mosley was GREAT @ lightweight. In fact, we say Shane was one of the greatest lightweights of all time. What were Shane's biggest wins? Philip Holiday, JESSE JAMES LEIJA, JOHN JOHN MOLINA. Oh wait, Oscar beat Leija and Molina...both in the same year. Can we give Oscar some of the credit we can freely give to Mosley?

I THINK PERNELL WHITAKER IS ONE OF THE GREATEST ATG'S EVER BY THE WAY.


To conclude:
1. Pernell has the greatest win of the two resumes: Julio Cesar Chavez.
2. Pernell beat ATG Azumah Nelson even though it wasn't in Nelson's prime weight, as well as beating Greg Haugen.
3. Pernell moved up to beat Vasquez.
4. Pernell had an even fight with prime Oscar De La Hoya.

1. Oscar has a better resume, stacked full of great champions from start to finish. He didn't duck anyone, even fighters who were wrong for his style.
2. Oscar was the world champion in 6 different weight classes (should be 5), from super featherweight all the way up to middleweight.
3. Oscar has beaten ATG's and boxers who are ATG's in their weight classes i.e arguable wins over Whitaker, Trinidad, Shane Roid 03' Mosley, Quartey, Hernandez, Chavez, Gonzalez bla bla bla.

Where do you rank him in your all-time rankings?

Last edited by anj; 01-02-2013 at 10:50 AM.
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