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Old 01-07-2013, 11:00 AM   #126
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Default Re: Vlad Klitschko vs the following

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
In regards to the first point like I said all Wlad should do is try to win, however it does little for his legacy if Wlad is forced to fight such a safety first and timid performance against someone like Haye. Seeing such a performance makes me question what evidence you have to back up the claim that Morrison who has shown to be quite skilled, fast, good head movement, very hard punching similiar to Haye BUT has shown to have heart and ***** would somehow "Get blitzed" and theres "No way he makes the final bell" yet Haye does and did? This is what I'm talking about when it comes to hurting Wlad's legacy. Surely that right there is a double standard.
Haye, whatever his faults, is a very fast and explosive ambush puncher with a lot more canniness than he's often given credit for. He had more than enough punching power to badly hurt and even stop Wlad, yet the fact that he was so effectively controlled and shut down through twelve rounds is somehow seen as a criticism of Wlad? That's what Wlad does, he shuts guys down and stops them fighting their fight. That's his legacy. He'll never be known as a Tyson-esque destroyer and he shouldn't start fighting like one now.

Re: Morrison. When I say that he'd "get blitzed" I simply mean he'd get dominated and stopped, not that he'd get taken out in the first or second rounds. Should have chosen a different word perhaps, but yes, there's no way he'd make the final bell and that would be almost entirely due to his heart and *****. Tommy was naturally a stalker, in that his whole stance and mental attitude were geared towards coming forward and doing damage. Whilst he could fight on the backfoot, he was not comfortable there, and he was very hittable by anyone big who fought behind a good jab. Old man Foreman was catching him continuously with his own and forcing Tommy to box on the outside where he wasn't entirely comfortable. This also happened against Lewis, who is probably the most stylistically similar heavyweight to Wlad.

Against Wlad, Tommy would get kept at bay in the opening stages and find himself with problems in landing his own shots due to not being able to set his feet or finding Wlad constantly just out of range of his left. From then he might either try to force his way forward, in which case he leaves himself open or gets clinched up on the inside, or he gets pushed onto the backfoot and forced to box. Either way the fight settles into a typical rhythm with Tommy eating more and more jabs and right hands, getting more and more discouraged and finally getting stopped somewhere in the middle or late rounds. I say that he won't reach the final bell because, although he wasn't slow he didn't quite have the reaction speed of Haye to have avoided those punches without getting caught by something big along the way, and tended to take his eye off the ball for stretches in a fight. He was also prone to self-doubt even when things were going his way, which resulted in him tensing up and gassing.

I'd actually give Morrison a much better chance to stop Haye than I would Wlad due to precisely those qualities you outlined above.

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
If you don't like the term "ex cruiser" perhaps I'll say the man who he outweighs by over 30 lbs since that alone is enough for majority on here to dismiss an old time fighters chance against a modern fighter. That's the reality of the situation.
It's not that I dislike the term. After all it's perfectly true that Haye is an ex-cruiser. What I dislike is its being used to demean someone's opposition by basically insinuating that the fighter in question didn't fight 'real' heavyweights, when in reality cruiserweights are heavyweights, by the standard of much of the latter half of the 20th century, and in many cases considerably more skilled and conditioned than the bigger fighters they now compete against once they move up.

But that's kind of beside the point when talking about Haye vs Klitschko since Wlad totally dominated him, 'timid' performance or not. The most it can tell us is that a smaller fighter could last the distance with Wlad if they're sufficiently tricky and don't care if they hardly win a round.

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
As for the 2nd point it was just what I said before. Men like Bowe, Ali, Holmes etc have heart and grit. These are men, who unlike Haye, will not be contempt with eating jabs all night and fighting simply to survive until the end of the bell then blame their poor performance on a 'broken toe'. These are men who will fighting every minute of every round TO WIN, who will push Wlad out of his comfort zone and not allow him to fight his safety first method. Wlad hasn't fought a man who was willing to push him out of his comfort zone since Sanders. Also say what you will about Bowe in regards to Golota, and make no mistake I believe Bowe to be overrated, but he demonstrated true qualities of a champion something Wlad hasn't really shown beyond being consistent.
Having heart and grit can be a benefit or it can be a curse. For Holmes and Ali it was a benefit because they had the skills and the smarts to put those qualities to good use in winning a fight. I can't say the same for Bowe, who really didn't show much ability to adapt when things weren't going his way. Bowe's sheer size and aggression might stand him in good stead, but it might also lead to him taking horrendous punishment round after round and being unable to turn the tide. It's a bit of a toss up in which I'll favour the more consistent and skilled operator in Wlad. As for Ali and Holmes, they would not be fighting every minute of every round to win, not in the way that Bowe would; they'd be trying to outbox Wlad and if they found themselves down on the cards then they'd try to change tactics. Both men might be able to push Wlad out of his comfort zone but they'd be doing it with quickness and sharp countershots, not relentless come forward aggression. I just think both fights would be a lot closer than people think, and would not at all be surprised if Wlad took a victory on the cards.

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
If I knew how to break up quotes this would probably be simpler
You can break up quotes by copying the two quote tags at the beginning and end of the post and pasting them where you want a new quote to be. For example (and I've removed the brackets so you can see it more easily):

quote=MadcapMaxie;14525360 If I knew how to break up quotes this would probably be simpler /quote

quote=MadcapMaxie;14525360 If I knew how to... /quote

quote=MadcapMaxie;14525360 ...break up quotes this would probably be simpler /quote

This would split the above line into two quotes. Just be sure to add in the brackets as well, otherwise it comes out as regular text.
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