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Old 01-18-2013, 07:49 AM   #66
MadcapMaxie
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
"Shavers scoring heavily"

I've just rewatched that fight. Shavers hit Quarry with two full power right hands flush on the chin, one as part of a combo, a number of body shots, a series of hit and hold uppercuts, and a big left that knocked Quarry to the side. In fact he was hitting with enough oomph to prompt Cossel to utter the above quote.

Compare that to Tua vs Ruiz where Tua staggered Ruiz with the very first punch he landed, and ended up knocking him completely unconscious literally a few seconds later.

You absolutely can compare punchers from different eras and Shavers doesn't stack up well to any of the big hitters of the modern era.




"Another opponent said he hit harder than both Ron Lyle and George Foreman combined."

Yeah, I don't think you're supposed to take that literally. It was, like a lot of quotes about Shavers, colourful hyperbole.

I'm wondering if you've ever actually seen Shavers fight? I ask because what you describe as his style bears very little resemblance to what I see in front of me. The fighter you describe sounds like Tex Cobb crossed with Butterbean. Shavers for all his faults was a top level professional boxer. No, he wasn't fast, but he wasn't slow either. Not Foreman slow. He wasn't particularly skilled in a boxing sense, but he had enough speed, enough accuracy and enough timing to catch you flush. Didn't throw combinations? He constantly threw combinations. It was his primary method of finishing off opponents. Couldn't set up punches? His favourite method of setting up punches was going to the body with a hard left then coming over the top with the overhand right. Could also throw hard off a pretty decent jab. A horrid finisher? How did he stop his opponents then, because outside of the Ellis fight it certainly wasn't with just one punch.

Tua was a crappy finisher as well with a ton of limitations, but if he hurt you then you were toast. Why? Because the initial shots screwed you up so badly that you were incapable of defending yourself.

Shavers never demonstrated that kind of power with anywhere near the same consistency.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
"Shavers scoring heavily"

I've just rewatched that fight. Shavers hit Quarry with two full power right hands flush on the chin, one as part of a combo, a number of body shots, a series of hit and hold uppercuts, and a big left that knocked Quarry to the side. In fact he was hitting with enough oomph to prompt Cossel to utter the above quote.

Compare that to Tua vs Ruiz where Tua staggered Ruiz with the very first punch he landed, and ended up knocking him completely unconscious literally a few seconds later.

You absolutely can compare punchers from different eras and Shavers doesn't stack up well to any of the big hitters of the modern era.
I just rewatched the Quarry fight and didn't see Shavers land any flush rights, although he seemingly did land a good one before Dunphy (not Cossell) announces "Shavers scoring heavily" but if you watch the footage closely you see the punch rolls off Quarry left shoulder and he turned away from it. This would take off alot of steam and in fact im not even sure the punch landed. You can see immediatley after he tries another 1-2 but gets caught first with a Quarry counter right. (0:52-0:55)


BORKED


(Here's hoping I embedded the video correctly)

The seemingly best punch Shavers landed was a wild left hand after Quarry already stunned him and it seemed to be the best punch because he actually hits Quarry's right hand as he throws it (at 1:37) making it look like it stunned Quarry when it didn't even land on his head.

Also how could on possibly compare the power of someone who fought 40 years ago to someone who is fighting today? Please Explain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
"Another opponent said he hit harder than both Ron Lyle and George Foreman combined."

Yeah, I don't think you're supposed to take that literally. It was, like a lot of quotes about Shavers, colourful hyperbole.

I'm wondering if you've ever actually seen Shavers fight? I ask because what you describe as his style bears very little resemblance to what I see in front of me. The fighter you describe sounds like Tex Cobb crossed with Butterbean. Shavers for all his faults was a top level professional boxer. No, he wasn't fast, but he wasn't slow either. Not Foreman slow. He wasn't particularly skilled in a boxing sense, but he had enough speed, enough accuracy and enough timing to catch you flush. Didn't throw combinations? He constantly threw combinations. It was his primary method of finishing off opponents. Couldn't set up punches? His favourite method of setting up punches was going to the body with a hard left then coming over the top with the overhand right. Could also throw hard off a pretty decent jab. A horrid finisher? How did he stop his opponents then, because outside of the Ellis fight it certainly wasn't with just one punch.

Tua was a crappy finisher as well with a ton of limitations, but if he hurt you then you were toast. Why? Because the initial shots screwed you up so badly that you were incapable of defending yourself.

Shavers never demonstrated that kind of power with anywhere near the same consistency.
Maybe it's hyperbole because the man, infact, hits incredibly hard? I've heard alot of people use similiar hyperbole when talking about the power of punches. Someone (forgot who) said that his opponent hit him so hard it made him question his existence.

Also yes I've seen Shavers fight, every fight that's avaliable on youtube. He does possess certain qualities but they arn't things one would say in regards to him, nobody says Shavers is a good combination puncher or that he's fast or that he's skilled. It's not like Marciano throws punches as if he was in molassess yet people call him slow. Shaver's modus operendi was simply to land his right, more specifically his looping overhand right. His style of fighting was solely dependant on hitting that right hand home which landed on the sweet spot very rarely. Also yes Shaver's has to be one of the worst finishers ever, bar his stoppage of Norton, he could never take out top tier fighters once hurt this is not due to his POWER but due to his lack of skill. Had Ali hurt couldnt finish the deal, had Lyle down and hurt couldn't finish the deal, had Holmes down and hurt couldnt finish the deal, had Bugner down and hurt couldnt finish the deal etc. Bad finisher in my books.
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