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Old 01-20-2013, 12:46 AM   #74
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Default Re: Dempsey's punching power

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
I just rewatched the Quarry fight and didn't see Shavers land any flush rights, although he seemingly did land a good one before Dunphy (not Cossell) announces "Shavers scoring heavily" but if you watch the footage closely you see the punch rolls off Quarry left shoulder and he turned away from it. This would take off alot of steam and in fact im not even sure the punch landed. You can see immediatley after he tries another 1-2 but gets caught first with a Quarry counter right. (0:52-0:55)
Quarry gets hit by hard rights at 0.34 and 0.53, the second of which drew a loud response from the crowd. And no, it didn't roll off his shoulder, it hit him on the chin, the same as the uppercut just before. He did manage to slightly roll with it, I agree, but there was definite contact, enough to have hurt were Shavers a bigger puncher than he was.

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
The seemingly best punch Shavers landed was a wild left hand after Quarry already stunned him and it seemed to be the best punch because he actually hits Quarry's right hand as he throws it (at 1:37) making it look like it stunned Quarry when it didn't even land on his head.

Also how could on possibly compare the power of someone who fought 40 years ago to someone who is fighting today? Please Explain.
By watching them fight, studying the nature of their knockouts and taking into account the size and toughness of their opposition. Shavers was a fighter who could put them down but not out, and needed to resort to battering his opponents to head and body in order to finish the job, even against relatively small or fragile opposition. Tua in comparison hurt and stopped nearly everyone whom he was able to land flush on, and knocked several fighters completely unconscious with a very small number of punches. Wlad and Lennox have several one punch knockouts against rated opposition. In Wlad's case he knocked one fighter (Chambers) completely unconscious with a glancing left without any real setup. Tyson knocked Botha out with a single right hand after trailing badly on the cards, knocked out Etienne, knocked out Holmes (the only man to do so), smashed up Golota's skull and spine with a single punch etc. Shavers's best demonstration of power was against Jimmy Ellis with a punch which was technically illegal. That knockout alone doesn't anywhere near justify his reputation however.

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Maybe it's hyperbole because the man, infact, hits incredibly hard? I've heard alot of people use similiar hyperbole when talking about the power of punches. Someone (forgot who) said that his opponent hit him so hard it made him question his existence.
I don't doubt that Shavers hit hard, but calling him the hardest puncher of all time is hyperbole.

Originally Posted by MadcapMaxie View Post
Also yes I've seen Shavers fight, every fight that's avaliable on youtube. He does possess certain qualities but they arn't things one would say in regards to him, nobody says Shavers is a good combination puncher or that he's fast or that he's skilled. It's not like Marciano throws punches as if he was in molassess yet people call him slow. Shaver's modus operendi was simply to land his right, more specifically his looping overhand right. His style of fighting was solely dependant on hitting that right hand home which landed on the sweet spot very rarely. Also yes Shaver's has to be one of the worst finishers ever, bar his stoppage of Norton, he could never take out top tier fighters once hurt this is not due to his POWER but due to his lack of skill. Had Ali hurt couldnt finish the deal, had Lyle down and hurt couldn't finish the deal, had Holmes down and hurt couldnt finish the deal, had Bugner down and hurt couldnt finish the deal etc. Bad finisher in my books.
Shavers's right was his money punch, but it wasn't like he just threw it out of leftfield every time. He knew how to set it up, mainly with bodyshots and uppercuts, and he understood the value of going downstairs to open a defensive opponent up if he got them pinned against the ropes. Sounds like a decent finisher to me. I also strongly disagree that he was slow. If he was, he would have never landed on some of the opponents he fought, with the flushness that he did.

Shavers was a puncher in the vein of Hasim Rahman, in my books, hurtful and heavy handed, but not a truly top level puncher. Incidentally, check out the right Shavers landed against Holmes with the right Rahman landed against Lewis. Almost identical shots.
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