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Old 01-22-2013, 05:34 AM   #94
Loudon
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Default Re: I see Roy Jones hanging past his prime is hurtin his legacy more than Ali hurt hi

Rex Tickard,

Part 1.

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I don't claim to know Jones' actual motives for declining to fight Tarver during this time - nor is it relevant to my point. The fact remains, Tarver emerged as one of Jones' two most distinguished rivals during his LHW reign (the other being Dariusz), and Jones had at least two opportunities to fight him prior to Ruiz. In the end, the best Jones actually proved he could do against his arch rival was one razor thin decision against one crushing KO loss and an embarrassing boxing lesson. That's the legacy we're left with
Roy's motive was to get under his skin. History shows us that it backfired. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. If Roy had've fought him earlier, I'm sure he'd have won. If so, he then wouldn't have been baited into coming back from heavy to fight him in 2003. I agree that Roy missed his chance to fight him earlier, but Tarver also missed his chance by losing to Harding. If Tarver had've beaten Harding, Roy would have fought him in 2000.

Roy showed what a great fighter he was in the first fight. He came from 199 down to 175, at nearly 35, after 50 fights. It took a lot out of him. Tarver didn't turn pro til he was about 28, and he'd only had 20 odd fights. Tarver was pumped to the max. He was hungry, motivated, and he was mentally and physically at 100%. Roy wasn't. He'd burnt muscle away, and he wasn't as mentally up for the fight like Tarver, because he'd lost out on the Tyson fight. That night saw the best of Tarver, against a version of Roy, that wasn't mentally or physically at his best.

Despite Roy's troubles, Tarver could not beat Roy in the first fight, and there wasn't any controversy in my opinion. Roy was spent for the last 3 rounds. Look at what happened with Dawson fighting Ward? Roy lost nearly 25 pounds for the weigh in, and out of all of that weight, around 13 pounds of it was actual muscle. 13 pounds of muscle at 35! What did Tarver say after the Rocky movie, after Hop had embarrassed him? He said it was the weight.

History has shown, that Tarver at his best, couldn't beat Roy in Nov 03.

The rematch was a perfect shot. It happens. Tarver had some skills, and anybody can go when they're caught. If you watch the replay, Tarver had his head down, and his eyes were closed.

After Glen Johnson had dominated and knocked Roy out just three months later, I don't think anyone cared what happened for Tarver III. Roy hadn't fought since the Johnson fight, and he'd been out for 13 months. He was also approaching 36.

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Well, it was realistic enough that Jones himself publicly said it was on the table, and that he would consider fighting overseas and coming down to 168 to make it happen.
It was merely an option, until Murad came back with a yes from the Ruiz camp. It wasn't realistic at all. Even if Ruiz had said no, he'd have fought Tarver instead anyway. Roy just gave false hope to the English media, because they'd filmed the fight with Woods on Grandstand. If you watch the post fight interview with Woods, he says it's Tarver or Ruiz next.

I'm not disputing that he didn't say it was a possibility, but it was never realistically going to happen. He was desperate to go to heavy at that point, so he wasn't interested in going down in weight, unless it was for a ridiculous sum. But he wouldn't have got huge money to face Joe, because it wouldn't have been a big money fight.

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Sorry, I was actually thinking of the tail end of 2002, before Jones had signed to fight Ruiz.
Fair enough.

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Not at all - in fact, I acknowledged that those fighters were difficult to negotiate with.
They were ridiculously hard to negotiate with.

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Again, not at all. I'm well aware that Hopkins and Calzaghe were notoriously difficult to negotiate with (as was Jones), and they probably have to share as much of the blame for those fights falling through as anyone.
They obviously didn't want Roy as much as what they both claimed. If Hop had've wanted it bad enough, he'd have accepted the 40%. Roy wasn't bothered, he'd nothing to prove, and he was never going to back down.

If Joe had've been that desperate to get Roy in the ring, he'd have fought in America and moved up to 175, a long time before he eventually did in 2008.

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However, in the end:
-Jones conceded to fight Calzaghe for a 50/50 split.
-He traveled overseas to fight Green, Lebedev, and Glazewski.
-He came down to 168 to fight Tito.

In other words, even if you believe Jones was justified in refusing to make certain concessions, he ultimately ended up making those very concessions in other fights.
It's all about the timing of the fights, and his circumstances at the time though.

Roy fought Joe for 50/50, because in 2008, Roy hadn't fought at elite level for three years, and Joe was now the man on top.

In 2002, Roy was the king, and Joe was a nobody. Roy had bigger fish to fry. In 2008, Roy's circumstances were different.

He's now travelling overseas, because again, he's no longer the man. When he was on top, people had to go to him. Now he's travelling everywhere to try and get a Cruiser belt. Most of he best Cruisers in the World are overseas. Again, his circumstances have changed. He's not the best fighter in the world anymore. He's 44 years old.

Regarding Tito, that was a catchweight of 170, and he came in light at 169. In 2008 he was more than willing to come down in weight, because his heavyweight exploits were over. I'm also certain that if you'd had asked him in 2008, if he was interested in the Cruiser division, he probably would have said no. This whole cruiser quest he's now on, is just an excuse to prolong his career. He can no longer make 175, and he never gave the division a seconds thought when he went to heavy.

Last edited by Loudon; 01-23-2013 at 05:38 AM.
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