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Old 01-24-2013, 05:55 AM   #19
McGrain
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Default Re: Tunney V Sharkey, Willard, Brennan,Miske, Firpo?

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post


It depends what you mean by better.

He didn't have the power of Gibbons or the versatiliy of Greb, but as an all out technician he surpassed either of them.
I think that's arguable, but even if it is absolutely true, as evidence of a supposed vulnerability to clever boxers, it is sparse in the extreme.


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My point is that technical briliance was Tunneys main card, and if you could match him on that, or just find an angle that he wasn't used to then the fight was on.
And my point is that none of these men DO equal Tunny on technical brilliance, and that fighters arguably better than all of them (apart from Gibbons, whom he stopped) had failed to "find an angle". Boxing is more absolute than punching. If you can't out boxyour opponent, you can't. Allowing that Firpo hit hard enough to break Tunney's legs, we then have to acknowledge that it could happen at any point in the fight.

That is, Miske either can or cannot outbox Tunney, and we know he almost certainly couldn't. Firpo is probably physically capable of knocking him out.

In short, if Miske had met and out-boxed Tunney in his prime, I would have to re-think my view of him in detail. If Firpo landed a perfect punch and knocked him unconscious, I would take a more "shit happens" point of view.



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If you match a guy like Firpo against an elusive technician who can take a punch, it is prety much a hopeless cause.
Nah, that's just not true at all. If it were, results like Julian Jackson KO Graham, Pickney KO Jones, Tarver KO Roy Jones, Smith KO Johnson, Ray KO Charles, Satterfield KO Johnson, Choynski KO Jack Johnson wouldn't occur. Now maybe none of these are an exact template of Tunney-Firpo but they all pit "elusive technicians" against people who can take a punch with the result being the technican who can take a punch being KTFO.

Now let's have some examples of clearly inferior boxers out-boxing great boxers. It's much rarerer by definition!




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Dempsey was not just a puncher, but also an all time great finisher.

Greb was able to land on Tunney consistently.

Firpo brings neither atribute to the party.
And I never said otherwise. What I was demonstrating is that Tunney, based upon the reality of his career seems more likley to be stopped - nearly twice - than out-boxed - which seems never to have happened.

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His only hope is that he somehow lands a single big punch, and Tunneys chin turns out not to be as good as we thought.
There is a better chance of that than his being out-boxed by inferior boxers, in my opinion.


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Firpo was no Baer.
Again, I haven't said otherwise. What I am saying is that if they had never met, then everyone would be saying, "oh, if Braddock could out-box Baer, Schmeling could do it." I think you would be one of those people.

But because they met, and a don't give a shit puncher managed to overwhelm the vastly superior technician, we know otherwise. I wouldn't expect that type of fight here, of course.
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