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Old 01-26-2013, 11:22 PM   #97
Rex Tickard
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Default Re: I see Roy Jones hanging past his prime is hurtin his legacy more than Ali hurt hi

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
I discussed this the other week. There were a few reasons it never came off, the biggest one being his Dad stepping in. Roy and Big Roy hadn't spoken for years and it tore his family apart. It really upset Roy's sister who he's extremely close to. Big Roy didn't want him to go through with it. The other factors were, he still had unfinished business at 175, and he was only young back then, and he knew he'd get another shot further down the line. So he agreed with Big Roy and took the olive branch. Just a year after the Douglas fight fell through, he unified against Reggie Johnson. History tells us that he couldn't have come back for Calzaghe and DM.
I've heard these excuses, but even if there is a grain of truth to them, they're still weak and inherently inconsistent IMO.

Essentially, the story is that Jones suddenly decided to allow his otherwise estranged father to dictate the course of his career and turn down a chance to make history while he was squarely at his peak - only to wait for years until he was in his mid 30s to attempt the same feat? At the time Jones backed out of Douglas, he had already spoken of retiring well before the time that he would eventually fight Ruiz - not consistent with your claim that he was looking forward to "another shot further down the line." Besides, that was a helluva big opportunity to turn down and expect to get again sometime later.

It also doesn't make sense to claim that he backed out of the fight because he wanted to unify the titles, since he actually gave up a title to make the fight happen. In fact, the whole charade only generated even more "unfinished business" at that weight, i.e: the Nunn/Rocchigiani/WBC scandal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Give me an example. Calzaghe? He fought Roy 4 years after Johnson had knocked him cold, 9 weeks from his 40th birthday, and he'd dismissed him as a challenge twice leading up to the fight. That fight harms Joe's legacy.
It harms Calzaghe's legacy that he didn't diligently pursue this or other big fights back when he was in his prime, just as the same does for Hopkins and Jones.

However, Jones also suffers the additional harm of having lost the long overdue fight when it finally happened. No matter how you spin it, that's still worse than winning the fight, as Calzaghe did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
He unified in 99. He had a few mandatories, then fought the winner of Harding and Tarver. In 2001, HBO, Jacobs and Murad, went all out to get the fight. It's clear that DM wasn't interested. We know what he did afterwards. How did he make a conscious choice to leave a gap? He sent Jacobs to meet with HBO execs to make the fight.
By his own admission, Jones had the option to go to Germany in '97 or '98 and attempt to eliminate his most distinguished rival in the division right then and there. Instead, he basically circumvented the fight by snatching up the titles that had been stripped from Dariusz while making increasingly larger demands for the fight - ultimately as much as $25 million.

Even the points you highlighted don't entirely substantiate that Jones really wanted the fight. Jones and Murad didn't exactly go "all out" to make the fight - at one point, they insisted that Dariusz come to the US and fight other fights first before they would consider fighting him. That's not going "all out" to make a fight - that's actually placing obstacles in the way of the fight. Jones also stated that the fight he most wanted at this time was Tito, which would've almost certainly been a glorified mismatch.

I don't go so far as to claim that Jones outright "ducked" Dariusz like many people do, nor do I claim that Dariusz's people were themselves all-out to make the fight either. But at best, Jones was indifferent to fighting his most distinguished rival in the division - again, not consistent with a claim that he "solidified" his legacy.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
When the fights with Hop and DM couldn't be made, that's when he decided to move to heavy, because there was nothing else to accomplish.
Not true, as Tarver had already emerged as a distinguished rival and even a possible threat following his KO of Harding.


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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
They were different era's.
The main difference is the choices the fighters make. Issues over money, politics, etc. take priority today because fighters give them that priority.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Roy's Frazier and Foreman was Toney. Tarver became his rival in the end, but he was in his mid 30's by then. Roy never really had an opportunity to have a Manilla or a Jungle. It's the same with the Fab Four. They all fought each other in great fights. But again, Roy never had those opportunites that they had.
Dariusz, Calzaghe, Ottke, and Jirov were all longtime unbeaten titleholders in or around Jones' weight class during his LHW reign. Any one of them would've been a viable rival and a distinguished scalp on Jones' resume.

Rematching Hopkins in the early 2000s would've meant continuing a rivalry at the most optimum time that a fight between them could've happened.
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