Originally Posted by MAG1965
at least ESB has guys like this which show consistency.
Mag, yes you're consistent, but unfortunately you're consistently wrong.
To determine where Duran stands you have to do the following:
1. Evaluate his record at Lightweight, which is no worse than top 3. Also consider his longivity and the number of fights he's had. If you stop there, he's probably top 15-20
Next, his win over Leonard, who is certainly top 5 w.w. of all time.
If you stop there, he's closing in on top 10.
And just like you insist on punishing Duran for his losses, which is fair, you can't then decide to downplay this win. You can't have it both ways.
Loss to SRL was a huge blemish, but it really was more of a mental deficiency than anything else. but yes it was bad. At the very worst, this loss, negates the win, it can't be any worse than that.
His loss to Hearns, wasn't nearly so bad because you're really getting into a huge, huge size mismatch.
You say Pac beat more ATG's, which of those ATG's would have beaten either SRL or Hearns?
So this leaves him around the top 15-20 mark again. His near win over Hagler and his win over Barkley are huge.. putting him again in the top 10 or close to it. Barkley beat Hearns twice and he's a physical monster compared to Duran. He had every conceivable advantage except boxing skills. He was younger, stronger, taller, faster, longer reach, and far more power, it should have been a mismatch. And Hagler, is a top 5 ATG middleweight how can going the distance with him be meaningless?
Again back to your pac comparison, would Pac have gone the distance with Hagler, and beat Barkley?
So we're back to him being close or in the top 10.
Lost to Benitez, Sims beat Moore, and Palomino again, a bit of a wash.
The difference between him and say SRL, is that I agree, SRL showed great diversity in terms of having to fight various styles, but he woefully lacked in the number of fights he fought. Duran stuck around long enough to see him go into a major slump, and then get out of it.
But beating SRL (who beat Benitez) and Barkley (who beat Hearns) shows that on any given day a closely matched fight can go either way. And the reason I like Duran so much is exactly why I don't like Mayweather, he wasn't scared to loose. He just wanted to test himself to the limit and give the fans their monies worth. Even SRL can't say that. His career was far more calculated with hand picked opponents than Duran's ever was, because he had the marketing power of being American and having that gold metal.
So no way is Pac rated higher than Duran, for the reasons I've outlined, and the main reason Duran rates higher than SRL boils down to longivity more than anything else.