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Old 07-30-2007, 02:33 AM   #42
OLD FOGEY
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Default Re: top 5 Heavy/Achievement

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickHudson
Nice analysis, Old Fogey,

but I think you'll find most on the forum have Louis ahead of Holmes, either at #1 or #2. I dont think there is any need to debate Louis legacy versus Holmes, as you did. Louis is better and thats pretty much the end of it.

We should focus the Holmes era debate against the other 7 potential top10ers (i.e excepting Ali, Louis and Holmes).

Against these 'also-ran' guys, I suspect Holmes overall record stands scrutiny pretty well, in terms of a combo formula of # defences, qualiy of opposition, ranking of opposition at time of fight etc...

Also, earlier in this thread I noticed a lot of talk about Pattersons blow outs against Liston. They were big dramatic losses and rightly count against him. That is why most on the forum have him outside the top10 (although I have him scraped in at 10 for the moment).

But, it is interesting to me that Lennox Lewis has two blow outs equally as awful, yet he routinely gets ranked as high as #3 all time. On top of this, his blow outs were not against a prime Liston, one of the hardest hitters of all time and a consensus ATG, but Rahman and McCall. To me it is an interesting comparison...How do we compare Lewis's and Pattersons blow outs? Whose were worse? How does it effect their standinfg relative to each other??
The post I answered claimed Holmes as fighting tougher competition than Louis.
Of the other champions, I can analyze Marciano. Eight men were ranked either #1 or #2 contenders between the time Marciano won the title and the end of 1955. Marciano did not fight two of them--Valdes and Baker. He fought five--Walcott, LaStarza, Charles, ****ell, and Moore--in title defenses. The eighth, Layne, he had knocked out in 1951 and Layne lost to LaStarza and Charles in 1953 and thus lost his high ranking.
On Patterson--After all, the blowouts by Liston are not his only defeats. He was also blown out by Johansson in their first fight and beaten badly by Ali. He was also edged by Maxim, Quarry, and Ellis. It was not like he was totally dominant other than for Liston.
Lewis was dominant other than his two defeats.

Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 07-30-2007 at 07:49 AM.
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