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Old 07-31-2007, 12:51 PM   #58
Boris Christoff
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Default Re: Butter Bean Esch vs Tony Galento

You needn't go that far, but staying on the subject of tight, crisp punches, I will do so for a brief clip:


Aside from a hookercut-ish thing that he winds up at the beginning, and another similar punch during infighting later on, Louis's punches all come from guard position. He hangs one jab out there once as you point out, and Schmeling capitalizes by nailing him with a right hand--so he couldn't have been that clueless. The leaping left hook is an off-balancing punch, but so is Floyd Patterson's.
Yes, there is some better technique there than shown from the Galento bout, but it is in a position that he is controlling against another paced boxer type, not a boulder who's lunging in and giving him no room.

Floyd Patterson did so many other things correctly however, every fighter will present something sloppy here and there. In that clip I still see arm punches rather than punches coming up from the legs as his main offensive punching technique, while it's tighter than from Galento, he's still open for massive counters and his shots are poorly timed.

One other thing I notice--the gloves are smaller than they are today, and the still seem to use some vestiges of the arm-parrying rather than glove-parrying of an earlier period. This may account for one or two weirder movements, and the hands being a little further out. It may be intentional and sensible, given the small gloves. Then again, it might be a flaw such as you were referring to. Ideally we could test it and see.
It's a flaw, trust me there. It has to do with the gloves, but it's a flaw none the less for proper boxing and the Louis era was proper boxing more so than the brutal era's before it of dirty boxing.

Regardless, Louis is fighting under a modern ruleset, a modern fighter with the smaller gloves still uses the footwork*, even if that modern fighter isn't known for the footwork, since Louis has no footwork what so ever hardly and gets into position to throw a crisp shot right down the pipe and there is no way that it won't land and put Louis on the floor.

But that is a mistake. One must always consider who they're watching--for instance, a fringe contender can look like Tyson against most journeymen, but their flaws only start showing when they step up in class.
Alas, I have given my example of Antonio Margarito. I can really call these things CT, someone doesn't look to me what they aren't, ever. They shouldn't to you either, unless you in fact hold boxers to too high of a degree... then you'll be watching from a different perspective.

It's no mistake, Galento is what he is and he's the worst I've seen so far.

Believe me, it's baffling to me how Galento could have been a top contender. He truly looks as awful as you say. But Louis, and many other fighters of that period, do not. If Galento was truly as bad as you say--and he looks it--then even Louis's somewhat "primitive" skills should still have annihilated him. Wouldn't you expect as much?
Louis could not annihilate him massively in the first like I say because he lacks the movement ability, which comes from footwork* and Tony's lunging throw Louis off balance, whom without footwork* cannot pick him off from the back foot. Toney's lunging also exploited Louis' poor gaurd and no defence like I am calling on, making it rough... then he just leaned his weight on him in the clinch.

There is nothing more to it then that CT, Louis looks better at a controlled pace of course.

My point is if the dough ball can get him looking that bad, well, what can a modern fighter who can easily pick through his guard and use the modern positing and footwork* and superior movement speed and punching sharpness, which is normally generated partially or fully from the legs, do to Joe Louis?

Well, he'd knock Louis out early, because Joe lacks the skill to otherwise compete.

And to Luigi, Wlad was throwing 45+ jabs a round vs. Brewster, very stiff, straight well timed jabs against a guy with a great chin, but even then, an offensive fighter with somewhat of a guard, regardless of how bad his defence is in the modern era... the guard is still there, blocking and slipping to a minor degree is still there...
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