between rage and serenity
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Between the Alpha and the Omega
Re: El Puma's strength conditioning thread
Taku: The most common mistakes I encounter are;
1.Overtraining during the peaking phase of training.
2.Poor nutritional habits which lead to making weight using less then optimal means.
3.Poor stress management skills which just cause general energy leaks that can really decrease performance.
MFry: The two biggest mistakes I see are not training the right way (conditioning) and poor nutrition. It drives me crazy sometimes to see fighters who have loads of potential waste it with poor training and nutritional habits. Some times it’s not the athletes fault but their coaches
JBeaty: Is their one thing all winners seem to have in common?
JHale: I have seen winners come in all shapes and sizes (concerning personalities and physical qualities). I think there is a wide array of physical traits among fighters under A class level, but less variation as athletes become A class fighters. Most A class fighters are able to take criticism, posses’ strong work ethic, and realize the importance of a properly designed strength and conditioning program (this includes proper nutrition).
Smith: I’m not sure that I comfortable limiting my answer to one quality; but, if I must then I will state that every winner possesses an unrelenting will to achieve their objective.
Taku: The ability to persist. Winners will keep their eye on the prize and can adjust themselves in the moment, reevaluating their plan of attack while staying focused on their goal.
MFry: A strong mental belief that they are going to win. They say sports are 90% mental and in the fight game it can be closer to the truth. You can have all the talent in the world but if you don’t think you’re going to win, you won’t…If you’re a fighter or combat athlete and want to be at the top of your game I would recommend adding mental training to your current training regimen.
JBeaty: Some coaches advocate committing there fighters to attaining a 3xbodywieght deadlift, 2.5 bodyweight bench, and 2.5 bodyweight squat? What do you think about this guideline?
JHale: I think if these coaches are training fighters their in the wrong sport. There is absolutely no correlation with these numbers and fighting ability. At the same time I am not implying that fighters shouldn’t work on the development of maximum strength. Keep this in mind if big gym numbers are your main objective fighting is not for you as this will generally decrease Max strength. For big gym numbers eat a bunch; make sure you plenty of protein and wt train. Forget about training seriously for mma as the volume and nervous system fatigue will probably inhibit Max Strength gains.
JSmith: I would suspect that none of these coaches are responsible for producing a single world or nationally ranked fighter
Taku: I find this guideline somewhat irrelevant. Each athlete is unique. I constantly evaluate their training to help them refine what their goals should be. If we are improving in the desired areas then I know the plan is working. I have not found a direct correlation with specific poundage’s and success. But, strength is a key component and must be optimized.
MFry: I don’t follow these guidelines. I work with a lot of big athletes and if you’re a fighter, who weights 300lbs you’re then asking them to deadlift 900, bench 750, and squat 750. I don’t know too many athletes who can do this so no I don’t follow them.
JBeaty: How concerned are you with a fighters "weightroom numbers"?
JHale: Depends on the fighter. If they feel really strong and powerful in the ring there weight room numbers are probably decent (of course this is relative and depends what you are comparing to). I have seen other fighters who have relatively good wt room numbers, but appear weak in the ring. This could be due to a number of reasons. In general, power (work divided by time- Rate of force development) seems to be more important than Max strength. In most combat situations there is insufficient time availability to display Max strength. I haven’t seen any thing that suggests weight room numbers alone correlate with success as a fighter.
JSmith: The degree to which I may or may not be concerned with strength as it is demonstrated in the weight room is directly related to the preparedness of the sportsman. Certain fighters would do well to perform a higher volume of weight training while others already possess a high enough level of the non-specific strength which comes as a result of lifting weights.
Taku: Following off the last question one may think that I am not concerned with a fighter’s weight room numbers. Actually I am concerned only in that I see progress in the areas I feel need it. We will have target goals and I want to achieve them. My experience shows that I can expect a certain percentage increase in strength within a certain amount of time. If the numbers do not move in the right direction in a reasonable time frame I must look closely at our plan and make sure all aspects are optimized. With the above being said, I do not have any magic numbers that I expect from everyone.
MFry: I’m not concerned with them and don’t put any valve to weight room numbers as what was asked previous. Here is a list of the things I track.
•Pre-workout heart rate
•Post exercise heart rate.
•Recovery time between exercises
J Beaty: If there was one lift that separated the men from the boys in the ring what would that be? (Considering both has equal levels of conditioning)
JHale: There is no magic lift. Numerous factors come into play. In general, my athletes perform primarily compound movements. If a particular lift seems to be injurious to an athlete we strike that movement and use a substitute. No matter how good a movement has the potential to be if it is injurious it is probably not the best choice.
JSmith: Allow me to first state that it is unlikely that strength in a certain lift would ever distinguish the winner from the loser. Having said this, I have always felt that the ‘strongest’ individuals are those who posses great back strength. Accordingly, a fighter who possesses great pulling strength is certainly at an advantage when in the clinch, throwing, grappling, etc.
Taku: I honestly don’t have one lift that I feel is key to an individual’s success. I have many favorites such as Clean Deadlifts and Overhead Squats. I train my athletes to achieve balanced strength throughout their entire body. Each athlete will require different prescriptions at different times depending on their individual needs.
MFry: POWER CLEANs, power cleans, power cleans. Great total body exercise.
J Beaty: How much time and effort is divided on separate goals such as maximal strength, conditioning, etc?
JHale: Depends on strength and weaknesses, training goal, and experience levels. In beginners increasing max strength generally enhances other motor qualities assuming that weight gain is not too rapid (generally decreases relative strength which decreases movement abilities). Intermediate and advanced trainees generally have much wider responses to training programs.
JSmith: This is entirely dependent on the sportsman’s preparedness, the contest schedule, the discipline being trained, and so on. One universal rule in my view, however, (specifically in regards to fighters) is that the training of maximal strength via non-specific means (in the weight room) must greatly diminish, if not cease, approximately 3-6 weeks prior to a contest.
The training of maximal strength yields high stress to the central nervous system (CNS). This presents too high a strain to the human organism when combined with the increased volume of fight specific training that must be included as a contest approaches. The CNS is the largest branch of the nervous system. When the CNS becomes excessively depressed the remainder of the nervous system (autonomic) is also likely to weaken. As a result, the regulation, control, and monitoring of muscle, sense, and organ function may become impaired. Restless sleep, illness/immune dysfunction/weakening, fatigue, and impaired motor function are not desirable qualities for any sportsman.
Taku: Again this question can only truly be answered in a case by case basis. If we look at Tudor Bompa's Training Factors Pyramid we see that the base is GPP. All fighters need to have an excellent GPP base. We then customize training according to all their personal factors. These may include but are not limited to age, state of health, injury status, etc. My goals is to create highly conditioned fighters with enough strength, stamina and flexibility to get the job done with gas left in the tank and come out as injury free as possible.
MFry: Prior to a fight being scheduled I spend a lot of time working on maximum strength. Like I said we will do long distance aerobic running and we get our anaerobic work during grappling classes; it’s only when we get the call for a fight that we switch to power endurance training and anaerobic conditioning. I would say pre fight we are 80-20 aerobic – anaerobic and after a fight is planned we switch to 90-10 anaerobic – aerobic.