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Old 08-29-2007, 07:39 AM   #61
Dominating a decade
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Default Re: Is there a LHW who would have stood a chance with Tyson?

Senya13 The pressure fighter Tunney is matched against was just as ferocious as Greb, but more polished, much bigger and stronger, with much harder punch in both hands, and beat a a lot of ranked heavyweights.
Very true. But Greb was a sustained windmill. Tyson was a tornado that came and went. Those who were not afraid of Tyson and could weather his storm or avoid it beat him. Tyson has one late round TKO in his career ( 10th ) and after that his next latest TKO is round 7. I beleive Tyson's activity level and aggression dropped off significantly after about round 5.
While smaller heavies like Spinks and M Frazier " froze ", others did not. Tyson might have had honest draw vs James Tillis, who like Tunney was a good boxer. So you see, Tyson did not roll over guys who did not freeze up. Tunney would not freeze up. He was a marine.

It's very debatable.
Since we can't see the fights, yes it is debatable. However Tunney won three of five, and Greb won once according to Newspapers. I see you left out my comment that both Greb and Dempsey did not want any part of a peaking Tunney. They knew Tunney had passed them, so each man said no thanks to another fight. Tunney had trouble with Greb when he was less than 175 pound. As soon as he grew into his frame, the fight changed.

One has to look for styles match up, and we see that Tunney didn't match up well against good pressure. He only managed to beat Greb convinsingly once out of 5 fights, when Greb started to slide down.
Greb had far more energy than Tyson did. The fight Greb officially won is Tunney's lone loss. I beleive it would be a NC in modern rules due to Greb butting Tunney in the face and creating a broken nose and cuts in round 1.

You aren't watching the fights too attentively, as well as you don't read contemporary sources about these fights. It is clear (and contemporary experts mentioned this in their ****ysis) that Dempsey changed his style for these bouts to a more usual style, making his left hook ineffective (due to his stance), and almost abandoning his rushes completely.
I wasn't watching the fights too attentively? The #1 strategy for Dempsey was to catch Tunney on the ropes or brawl toe to toe if Tunney was follish enough to stand and trade. Outside of the long count round, ( a round where Tunney took Dempsey best combination on film and got up 100% fresh and showed brilliant evasive footwork ), please show me one other round where Dempsey was able to catch up to Tunney and unload his bombs without being tangled up in a clinch. Examples would be nice.

Dempsey badly wanted to land his hook. Tunney proved to be a frustrating target that would box and move. Tunney was a bit like Ali, except he was even more focused and did not take breaks on the ropes to catch his wind. Dempsey was in better shape for the second match. Even a past his best Dempsey moved better than most top heavyweights. If Tunney stood toe to toe, or tired, there is NO WAY Dempsey boxes! Dempsey grew tired of chasing Tunney. And Tunney hurt Dempsey though an attrition of blows. If the fight was 15 rounds, Tunney likely scores a TKO. At the end of the 2nd fight, Dempsey an honest man wanted to congragulate Tunney, but his eyes were slits, and a corner man had to help Dempsey find where Tunney was in the ring! Did you know this? Have you not see a stylistic shut down in boxing where a slugger can't win more than a round or two vs a fast boxer? See Holmes vs Shavers. Shavers looks like he's trying to box, but in truth he badly wanted to slug.....he just could not find that type of fight and ends up chasing Holmes for most of the rounds.

Again, I do pick Tyson here. My point is Tunney has a chance to upset. Other boxers like Douglas and Holyfield used their skils and jab to frusterate Tyson, then take him out late.
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