Originally Posted by PetethePrince
No Coleman nor Culter have done it. Yates looked terrible with that weight gain. He wasn't as lean, cut or as vascular. Obviously there is a platue but the one guy basically said you are either born to look like Harold Johnson. The truth is most people can get that look. Jay Cutler is another thing. Cutler and Coleman are just a protegy of more gut and size infested group of bodybuilders that are more roid infested. Also nutrition/supplementation and knowledge is even more than it was in the early 90's than what it is now. Who says that you can continiously put on 15 lbs of muscle each year?
Any old body? Okay, now you're really stretching from the main thesis/point of the original guys argument. He said young people are being fooled into think they can look like Harold Johnson... they're just born like that. Genetics play a part but hard work can get you to look that good. Not everyone can be Jay Cutler or Ronnie Coleman of course, but those guys couldn't be that without the hard work and tons of riods.
Right, genetics is important. People have headstarts, some people gain far quicker. Doesn't mean hard work won't pay off. The people who got discouraged don't get that. The people who are usually huge get it with much more persistance/dedication (Not all of them). People in terms of nutrition and getting to understand their bodies is also other factors that people negligent or don't understand.
You sound like this is an instant want from people. That's the problem. I said hard work of years. Nobody struggles to gain size in years.
Wow... I'm done with this conversation if you actually believe that. I am living proof that this is total bs.
Well. That deals with genetics too. Diet, or how hard and how much training the person does. If they go hard with cardio while really cutting carbs and calories the way bodybuilders do for competetions they can get that look. Most people can look like guys on the front of magazine with years and years of hard work. And this is without steroids. The guy you agree with thinks that guys are born a certain way and nobody can look like them with hardwork or steriods. It's foolish and lazy attitude occupied by usually lazy, undedicated people who justify and give excuses for their lack of work. You notice it's usually people who don't look good who say these things. Obviously genetics play a part, but seriously.
To be truthful to you. I know scrawny kids that did juice to help them. But they got far without it. And I know scrawny kids that got big without juicing. This isn't a "myth" you view is just a tad narrow-minded.
Either way, do you realize that John guy said that steroids or anything won't do anything. It's "all genetics." Unless I read that wrong, this was the whole argument. Anybody with years of hard work and steroids could probably achieve a profession as a bodybuilder type model. Genetics won't disable this. Genetics just allow for things to come easier for people or for others to be naturally strong/big. Sometimes genetics give you great capacity, but it's more likely you just reach farther since you have solid genes. And I know these gene freaks but I couldn't keep up with in terms of gains. But I could hold my own with them even when they worked half as hard as me.
Lemme try 'n clarify, PtP:
With weights, juice and diet a guy should pack on pounds, muscle, 'n get much much much stronger. In some cases, get enormous. But his basic shape, separation 'n muscle bellies will never change.
If he had narrow shoulders -- the frame -- when he started, they'll always be narrow, albeit massive.
In short, unless you have the GENETICS, no amount of exercise, weight lifting, juicing 'n diet will get you to look like Marvin Hagler or Harold Johnson.