10-02-2007, 02:47 PM
Join Date: Feb 2006
Re: How many does Liston win vs...
Originally Posted by Stonehands89
Wrong. The good ones are based on informed opinion, and informed opinion is formed on patterns observed, styles observed, and objectivity.
Well, those that offer selective examples that bolster their man and tear down the other are not objective are they.
Perhaps you read selective posts --I think that most posts have sense enough to take each man at their peak and hypothesize from there.
I am as objective as I can be and if I am not, I admit it --and others out here will attest to that. You will not read many opinions out here from me that are not backed up by argument.
At the same time, others make no bones about their bias -and if you are paying attention out here you could name them. You're coming off like an old fogey.
The psychobabble you accuse me of was not about why he isn't ranked higher, it was about the threat that society -both black and white found in him. The NAACP did not want Floyd to fight Liston for the title. Pscyhobabble? Try historical fact.
You misunderstood the post. I said that when you take all of the HW champs and have each man fight his peers, Liston would have the best record in my (informed) opinion. Ali is second. Also, If you have been reading what I have written, you would have read that I don't believe that Liston should be favored against Ali, prime for prime.
Anyway, you state that Ali was green in 1964 and say nothing about Liston's age in 1964. Someone needs an objectivity check.
Again, Liston does not have the greatest scalps in HW history. You need to look at what his strengths were in the ring, how he dealt with different styles, and his level of skill. Styles make fights, indeed, and although it is true that Liston had some trouble with speed and particularly large men with demon speed, he could handle swarmers, punchers, and boxers.
---this has been the crux of what I've been saying! What took you so long?
Last edited by OLD FOGEY; 10-02-2007 at 03:07 PM.