Originally Posted by mcvey
I dont agree Johnson was overated ,I think he is the second best heavyweight of all time.The only fight I can see a case for Johnson being lucky in is perhaps the Jim Johnson fight,Ive seen the fight described as scheduled for ten and twenty rounds so there is some confusion there.
A prime Johnson beats Sullivan ,Corbett,Fitz,Jeffries,Hart,Langford Jeanette ,Mcvey,Smith or anyone else before Dempseys reign.
Ithink Jack whips Dempsey,Marciano,Tunney,Liston and Holmes,Tyson ,Lewis,but loses to Ali.
Ive held the view that Jack Johnson was the greatest Heavywieght of all time right up until I watched Ali ko Foreman ,on closed circuit in Leicester Square London,then I changed to Ali as my number 1.
Mendoza we are further apart than ever,Ive agreed that Johnson should have fought the top black challengers of his reign,so should Louis have ,Holmes my number 5 heavweight should have fought Page Thomas ,Witherspoon and Williams again,Tunney should have fought Sharkey but the Gob drawing with Heeney got him off that one ,Tunney could have fought Godfrey but chose not to,Schmeling actually turned down a fight with Champ Baer,you can go on and on.You arent coming up with anything NEW!
Your opinion is your opinion. I just see it as an all heart opinion that lacks objectivity.
Let's suppose for a moment if Ali, Foreman, Marciano, Holmes or anyone else you mentioned was Ko'd by a light heavy, quit twice in the ring, lost to mere contenders, was knocked down by a middle weight, got DQ'd by goin low when the going got rough, drew or went the distance with many journeyman and as champion ducked the best five contenders out there! This man is #2? If so, I say OVER RATED.
When do you think Johnson prime years were, and why would the #2 all time heavy have that much trouble in his prime years? Let's assume that Johnson's prime years were from 1908-1912. Why did he have trouble with O'Briens', Ketchel's, and Jim Johnsonís of boxing? The best heavyweight champions would romp these guys. You're #2 all time guy in his prime had his hands full, and in truth should have lost at least one of these fights.
Could you imagie if Ali, or Holmes had the exact same results from fighters the size, skill, and caliber of a past his best O'Brien, a middle weight in Ketchel who knocked him down, and a career journeyamn heavyweight in Jim Johnson? I 'd drop them down several nothces, but that's just me being objective.