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Old 07-05-2007, 05:19 AM   #57
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Default Re: Where is Marvin Hagler in your Top Middleweights ATG?

Originally Posted by Senya13
Greb should rank at light heavyweight.
He trained very hard for the Walker fight, but only got down to 159lb.
Most of his significant fights took place at light heavyweight limit. For his relentless style to be most effective he needed to have little excessive weight, yet most of them had taken place above 160lb, so he probably felt that weight suit him better than going below 160lb. There's a legend that he never trained very hard, so this might be some excessive weight, but in fact he trained a lot, it was only a trick he often used to make his opponents believe he was out of shape. He showed up with girls, with a cigar, etc, but it was only playing for the public.
Using the arguments that are often mentioned here, had Greb and his opponents been fighting today, they'd be more muscled and weigh several pounds heavier too, again - they'd still be either 168 or 175-pounders.
I think you could rate him both at middle and light heavy, but he spent the majority of his career as a small light heavy. That still makes him a light heavy, but he was never really a fully fledged light heavy. In most of his key fights he weighed in the 160s.

In any case, I would rate him highliy at middle based on many of the things he did weighing in the mid 160s. It is based on speculation but I think he COULD have made 160 quite a bit more often if he fought for the middleweight title more often. People often dont like to take account of what a fighter did at a higher weight class when rating a fighter at a certain lower weight class but I think it is somewhat myopic to do so.

For instance, take Floyd Mayweather. Would he really rate top 50 at lightweight if we don't take account of what he did in other weight classes? A controversial fight with Castillo most felt he lost and a rematch he won clearly but didn't dominate. Then a less than impressive performance against Victoriano Sosa. Is that enough to put him top 50 at lightweight? I could name 50 lightweights with better accomplishments. But measuring his talent and what he accomplished at other weights, it seems foolish to rate him so low.
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