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Old 03-23-2011, 10:27 PM   #64
Boilermaker
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Default Re: who is the greatest of all time? vote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorodz View Post
he's absolutely one of the ten best. at worst 3rd, WORST.
His middleweight reign was patchy. I cant see how he gets to 3rd of all time, but i know some rank him that high. He has to rate behind Monzon and Hagler, surely based pure consistency and longevity. He is definitely behind Fitzsimmons, based on spectacular reign, longevity, dominance and any other criteria you want to invent. It would seem pretty hard to rate him over Harry Greb at middleweight, although I suppose Greb may have been a little overweight for most of his big wins, which might weigh against him.

Sam Langford has a decent argument to be ranked above him, though he does have the same trouble as Greb, perhaps to a larger extent. Tommy Ryan's record at middleweight, is close to identical with Ray's.

I do think Ray is top 10 and probably top 5, but he is not the out and out standout that people try to make out. This is based solely on his record, if you want to look at subjective features like how he looked, strength of era etc, then that is a different situation, but so far as dominance of the middleweight division goes, he was not the most dominant champion of all time, and to be honest i would probably say it is more likely at best 3rd and not at worst.

And by the way, in case i am misinterpreted, i do think that if focused and in form he does have a decent chance against any middleweight that ever fought, but it is just that he is not guaranteed to win. That should be undisputed actually, since he wasnt guaranteed to (and didnt always) win against the best middleweights of his own time!
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