Never Gymless: Opinions

[patch1983]

I know what you are talking about but you are wrong.

[MrSmall]

Then that's that then. You know what I am talking about, and you understood his stuff differently.

Just like I said about 10 posts ago, agree to disagree.

And the workouts are good.

[Matt Ldn]

Originally Posted by MrSmall

No this is not what I meant!
What I meant was - that people WILL get stronger using his methods. But because it is mostly bodyweight variations, or home made equipment of some sort, the actual weight used is limited so the scope for progress is limited.
BUT, you WILL get stronger, and you will be stronger than people that don't do any strength training, however compared to people who use compound weights exercises as their mainstay in their strength training, they will be weaker. As a beginner, anything you do will see fast and effective gains, so its up to you really.
I would say the benefit of doing the stuff in his book for strength training is more equipment/convenience sake, and due to the limited or very controlled resistances, you are unlikely to injure yourself. While effective, it isn't the best thing you can do to develop your strength. But not being the best thing doesn't mean it won't work at all.
If you have access to a squat rack, or running track, or a shotput, or any free weights, its a no brainer for me. If your equipment is limited or you want to give it a go or don't want to spend the time learning proper technique with the barbell lifts, then it is a decent alternative.

And Johnboy,

Sorry i obviously wasnt being clear, that is what i meant that what are the better methods of gaining strength than pure bodyweight excercises.
i used to do a bit of strength training squats, deadlifts, bench, weighted chin ups etc. and saw massive initial gains but had to stop due to not having a gym anymore. But youve answered my question so i will incorporate some max strength weight workouts into my routine when i have a gym available again.

Quick question why is there so much debate over how low you should go in a squat. I was always taught that your hips had to go beneath your knees is this correct??

[MrSmall]

Originally Posted by Matt Ldn

Sorry i obviously wasnt being clear, that is what i meant that what are the better methods of gaining strength than pure bodyweight excercises.
i used to do a bit of strength training squats, deadlifts, bench, weighted chin ups etc. and saw massive initial gains but had to stop due to not having a gym anymore. But youve answered my question so i will incorporate some max strength weight workouts into my routine when i have a gym available again.

Quick question why is there so much debate over how low you should go in a squat. I was always taught that your hips had to go beneath your knees is this correct??

The crease of your hip must be below the top of your kneecap for it to be a powerlifting legal squat.
However there is no real reason why to not go as deep as possible whilst having an arch in your back and your chest up, i.e "ass to grass" or olympic depth. the knee is in a MUCH better leverage position at this point, whereas at or around parallel your knee is acting as a brake.

[Matt Ldn]

Originally Posted by MrSmall

The crease of your hip must be below the top of your kneecap for it to be a powerlifting legal squat.
However there is no real reason why to not go as deep as possible whilst having an arch in your back and your chest up, i.e "ass to grass" or olympic depth. the knee is in a MUCH better leverage position at this point, whereas at or around parallel your knee is acting as a brake.

I find that if i go much lower than below my knees its hard to maintain my form. Im fairly infelxible though so that could be a reason, do you know of a video or diagram that shows me perfect squatting technique by any chance??
Sorry to ask so many questions i really feel like i should be paying you for all this

[MrSmall]

you can pm me and sort out sending me donations, or you can pm me and we can come up with a specific plan and you can pay me, if you like! Or we can stay as is, and I can be an unsung hero of the world.. too dramatic?

You need to build up your flexibility and mobility and then you will be able to go nice and deep with an arched back and chest up. I think this is best for athletes, unless you have prior knee issues or wear and tear problems or you are quite old and don't have the time to get to grips with things, in which case do wide stance box squats.
For mobility, look up Joe Defranco's Agile 8 and Simple 6 warmup routines, and do them. For flexibility, make sure you do static hip stretches, static calf stretches, and deep squat position stretches, where you sit as deep as you can and then with your arms push your knees outwards to get a stretch through your hips and adductors.
A lot of "losing the position" or losing the technique/form is just being undisciplined and relaxing, or hitting depth at the expense of your technique, which is quite common for beginners. You have to FOCUS on keeping that stance and everything right, and tight, or you will just lose the weight. At the lighter stuff you can muscle it up and not really get injured, at the heavier weights you will either fail the weight and hit a sticking point, or you will get injured.

[Johnboy2007]

Just book marked that joe defranco page, at quick glance looks very interesting! Will read up tomorrow when im not so tired though lol

[MrSmall]

Its just basic mobility/flexibility based warmup, which can benefit most people who lift weights.
For guys doing boxing, not so much as all the gyms I've trained in they had really long warming up periods anyway.
Just with strength training its easy to do some sets with the bar and load up the weight, which is fine, but EVENTUALLY when you are lifting big kilos, you will notice things tight, painful, takes longer to warmup etc, and this sort of mobility drill is good to do.

[Johnboy2007]

Originally Posted by MrSmall

Its just basic mobility/flexibility based warmup, which can benefit most people who lift weights.
For guys doing boxing, not so much as all the gyms I've trained in they had really long warming up periods anyway.
Just with strength training its easy to do some sets with the bar and load up the weight, which is fine, but EVENTUALLY when you are lifting big kilos, you will notice things tight, painful, takes longer to warmup etc, and this sort of mobility drill is good to do.

Mr small any sites / routines you recommend purely for increasing and improving flexibility and mobility? I dont tend to do heavy weights or strength work but so i wouldnt say im hugely inflexible but i wouldnt say im flexible either so anything can only help right?? One of the posters furor celtica sent me a full routine which looks quite good and im going to start doing it once a week. Just always good to find out more and cross reference

[MrSmall]

Those two I mentioned mate, and Mike Robertson's "assess and correct", google it

[Johnboy2007]

Originally Posted by MrSmall

Those two I mentioned mate, and Mike Robertson's "assess and correct", google it

cheers Mr Small

[patch1983]

Now I have seen mrSmall's workout log on rosstraining I can see why he thinks people who follow Ross won't get very strong.

I would not take any advice from him.

[Johnboy2007]

Originally Posted by patch1983

I am not a follower. I don't post on his forum and I don't do any of his workouts. I have however learnt a lot from him. He puts out a lot of free videos, articles and will help anyone who emails him. Also his products are very cheap.

I quoted the bits that you made up.

once again how can you comment or disrespect Mr Smalls advice. He consistently gives great advice on this forum and is well respected.

These are the first posts iv seen take this anyway you like but you come across as not only ignorant and downright stupid. But also childish

Have a nice life

[patch1983]

Johnboy I follow his ideas in his book (which is the point of his books). There is no reason I have to do his workouts in the book for me to be able to comment. I have also discussed my training with him by email.

mrSmall is talking trash about someone who can deadlift around 600lbs while he is pathetically weak.

No one should give advice to other people unless they walk the walk.

[MrSmall]

Originally Posted by patch1983

Now I have seen mrSmall's workout log on rosstraining I can see why he thinks people who follow Ross won't get very strong.

I would not take any advice from him.

When was the last entry, friendo? 2008? 2007?

Yeah.. you crazy stalker you.

Originally Posted by patch1983

Johnboy I follow his ideas in his book (which is the point of his books). There is no reason I have to do his workouts in the book for me to be able to comment. I have also discussed my training with him by email.

mrSmall is talking trash about someone who can deadlift around 600lbs while he is weak.

you didn't get any of what I posted, so just stop posting.

we all established that the book and workouts are good. why are you still making a mountain out of my molehill opinion?
did I say the books are shit, the methods are awful and you will get awful results? no.

and thanks for the comments johnboy, appreciate it.
I can see where patch1983 would think I am a douchebag though, I mean everyone is entitled to their own opinion. but so am I, just because I see things differently to someone else doesn't mean I am trash talking