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Old 07-20-2011, 08:30 AM   #1
rocky1
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Default Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

I don't think too many people would argue that Wlad looked the best he has looked in a long time against Haye. Good movement + defence, consistent pressure, Very impressive hand speed for a guy his size and of course the power is also always there.

It's also clear that Haye's consistent trash talking in the build up to the fight helped to motivate Wlad to train as hard as he did.
Although Wlad won a clear decision lets not try and change the past pretty much every round was close and I don't think there were any rounds that either fighter dominated although Wlad did win most of the rounds.

My question is...... Would Haye have had a better chance at beating Wlad if he had kept quiet in the build up and not attempted to get under Wlads skin ???
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:34 AM   #2
Karl Jade
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

Would that have made Haye a better, more powerful, more durable boxer?

Honestly, what a shockingly bad attempt at a thread.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:47 AM   #3
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

You clearly dont understand what I have just said so let me re-cap.

- It was a close fight that Wlad did a little better in most rounds.

- Wlad trained very hard for this fight.

- Wlad was had extra motivation for his training from all of Haye's trash talk.

Would Haye have had a better chance at beating Wlad if he did not talk so much trash or would Wlad have always been too good, too big and too skilled for Haye ?
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:48 AM   #4
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

I don't think so.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by Karl Jade View Post
Would that have made Haye a better, more powerful, more durable boxer?

Honestly, what a shockingly bad attempt at a thread.
nice pic dude.

Bubby - go **** yourself, but try not to think of a klitschko while your doing it.
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Old 07-20-2011, 08:53 AM   #6
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
You clearly dont understand what I have just said so let me re-cap.

- It was a close fight that Wlad did a little better in most rounds.

- Wlad trained very hard for this fight.

- Wlad was had extra motivation for his training from all of Haye's trash talk.

Would Haye have had a better chance at beating Wlad if he did not talk so much trash or would Wlad have always been too good, too big and too skilled for Haye ?
Sorry, but that fight wasn't close!
Wladimir won easy..........Haye maybe won two rounds, and thats not a close fight........
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:03 AM   #7
rocky1
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
Sorry, but that fight wasn't close!
Wladimir won easy..........Haye maybe won two rounds, and thats not a close fight........
Wlad clearly won most of the rounds but I bet you can't show me even 3 rounds that Wlad dominated, most of the rounds were very close.
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:05 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by Guybino View Post
nice pic dude.

Bubby - go **** yourself, but try not to think of a klitschko while your doing it.
Woah you must be a real tough guy as your brave enough to insult someone over the internet
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:20 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
Wlad clearly won most of the rounds but I bet you can't show me even 3 rounds that Wlad dominated, most of the rounds were very close.
True, but still I would call it a "Mild" domination of most every round...
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:22 AM   #10
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
True, but still I would call it a "Mild" domination of most every round...
Mild domination
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Mild domination
What I mean is Wladimir didn't have Haye beat into a shell. But he clearly was the dominate man in the ring. He nullified Haye completely...........
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Old 07-20-2011, 09:34 AM   #12
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by Bubby View Post
What I mean is Wladimir didn't have Haye beat into a shell. But he clearly was the dominate man in the ring. He nullified Haye completely...........
OK, i just sounds funny
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:15 AM   #13
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

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Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post
I don't think too many people would argue that Wlad looked the best he has looked in a long time against Haye. Good movement + defence, consistent pressure, Very impressive hand speed for a guy his size and of course the power is also always there.

It's also clear that Haye's consistent trash talking in the build up to the fight helped to motivate Wlad to train as hard as he did.
Although Wlad won a clear decision lets not try and change the past pretty much every round was close and I don't think there were any rounds that either fighter dominated although Wlad did win most of the rounds.

My question is...... Would Haye have had a better chance at beating Wlad if he had kept quiet in the build up and not attempted to get under Wlads skin ???
No. Wladamir will beat Haye every time if Haye fights like he did last time. Any fight with Wlad presents multiple problems for Haye.

1) Size. Haye doesn't have it. He's listed as 6'3 but is more like 6'2 and he weighs from 210 to 217 if he's in shape. Wlad is 6'6 and will always be stronger than Haye is as will as outweighing him by 30lbs and having a longer reach. Wlad is a difficult match up for any smaller heavyweight in history because of this. He uses his height well.

2) Wlad's jab. It's probably the best in the business at present and I don't think Haye realised how fast, long and accurate it was. It both stopped Haye from getting set and kept him constantly busy trying to avoid it as well as making him wary of Wlad's following right hand. This limited Haye's output.

3) Haye's defence. Is VERY good but only when he is NOT attacking. Wlad struggled to really hit Haye clean when Haye was weaving and slipping. He is very slippery when he is focussed on not getting hit. However not only did Wlad keep him constantly in this frame of mind with his jab but Haye was more reluctant to throw because once he realised Wlad's handspeed was very good and he was countered a few times he was reluctant to throw. Haye gets so off balance and is so easy to hit when he goes for broke that he leaves himself very vulnerable. Haye himself knows this, ergo he reduced his workrate to look for one big shot.

4) Wlad's defence. His height, combined with his footwork backward make it very difficult to hit him cleanly unless you KEEP attacking him whilst also maintaining your own balance moving forward and whilst throwing your combinations. Haye goes off balance after he throws the right hand because he throws it with such force. He needed to attack whilst maintaining his balance until Wlad's back touched the ropes. Haye threw the big right and then fell over due to his toe or whatever. That's not enough. Wlad just moved. Only when Wlad was on the ropes could he throw the big shots as Wlad's defence relies on his height and moving out of range. When his back touches the ropes or you get inside him he holds.

5) Wlad's physical strength and clinching. Wlad knows his chin isn't great so when he gets buzzed he holds. And damn can he hold. He is 245lb of muscle and as soon as you get to him he gets you in a vice grip. The two big right hands Haye did land in one of the middle rounds and the last round DID hurt Wlad quite badly. But it didn't matter because he was so much stronger than Haye he just held him until he recovered. This would happen regardless of Haye following the right strategy of increasing his workrate, throwing on balance combinations when he goes for the attack and then getting to Wlad on the ropes.

6) Haye's stamina. Is a question mark. To follow the aggressive, on balance combinations, intelligent sporadic pressure approach would require him to have good stamina. Does he have it? Probably not.

Overally Haye's only shot in a rematch would require that he doesn't break his toe in training to start, then that he develops the stamina of Joe Frazier and lastly that he keeps throwing combinatons whilst remaining on balance until he can connect with Wlad hard on the ropes where he can't move out of range.

This is all possible but unlikely. Haye's defeat was due to Wlad being better than him on the night and possessing all the physical advantages as well him following the right strategy. Haye did not attack enough, nor did he keep attacking when he started like the guys who have beaten him in the past have. Purrity, Sanders and Brewster kept attacking until Wlad had nowhere to go. Haye would have to do the same thing next time. But he probably won't because he knows he has to be careful not to be caught or burn out.

Haye is a very good fighter and beats most heavyweights now. But not Wlad and not probably Vitali. They are too big, too strong, and possess too many fundamentals for a small guy like Haye to overcome.
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Old 07-20-2011, 11:20 AM   #14
GH057ayame
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Default Re: Wlad vs Haye (Yes another thread)

I look back at the fight and even up to the first bell I genuinely believed Haye could do it, so much so I spent nearly a grand on a one night stay in Hamburg!

I've watched the fight twice over and now can see why Haye going forward would have 0 chance of beating Wlad. The bookies in my eyes ripped themselves off with jhaving Wlad at 8/13!
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