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Old 08-17-2011, 07:45 AM   #16
Matt Ldn
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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Originally Posted by samperks View Post
i think weights when used well are brilliant but they work best on compound exercises like deadlift squats etc rather than just sitting down curling and working a single muscle.
If your doing curls etc with lots of isolation that is more bodybuilding depending on your number of reps and will have a negative impact on your boxing.

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Originally Posted by Sprawla View Post
body weight and weight is all the same, it is all resistance. Resistance from your bodies weight or resistance from weighted plates. I think you can get stronger training with weights. There is more variety amd you can vary the weight.
spot on. People seem to think bodyweight is only used for conditioning/endurance but that is mainly because it is easier to transition between excercises so is better in conditioning workouts in my experience. Plenty of bodyweight excercises many people here wouldnt have the strength to do.
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Old 08-17-2011, 07:55 AM   #17
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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i think weights when used well are brilliant but they work best on compound exercises like deadlift squats etc rather than just sitting down curling and working a single muscle.
i think a mixture of both is good, i do compound exercises but also do single muscle exercises too. I dont do deadlifts because they tighten my back up, but i do other exercises too work those areas
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:47 AM   #18
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

I love my weightlifting but all the chumps in the weightlifting gym are for the most part worthless in a fight, unless they are super big and strong and grab you. I believe in the sports specific training: you get better at boxing by boxing, better at wrestling by wrestling.

Pros of weight lifting: improved tendon and muscle strength, holistic increase in pushing type strengths and ring "presence", good for clinches, aesthetic (a little muscle looks better than being Erik Morales)

cons: possible weight gain making you short for the weight (not so bad for low center of gravity in wrestling, bad for range of attack if you are used to being a distance attacker in boxing), increased oxygen requirements, "gassing" a very real possibility if overmuscled, tightness and pulls common if flexibility is not assiduously trained

I honestly believe if you look at guys who fought before real weight lifting permeated the sport (leonard, camacho, whitaker,pryor) you will find they were much quicker of hand than guys their size nowadays and tired a bit less even late. Their opponents looked quicker, too. When I had a travelling job and didn't really lift for three years the things I noticed where that my range of motion was excellent when I sparred and that my hand speed was way way way better than I remembered. Then I started lifting again seriously and I think its back to the same somewhat limited range of motion, heavy thudding blows, slightly less fluidity, but still quick, just relatively slower and a need to conserve my punches IMO.
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:52 AM   #19
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

obviously 11
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:48 PM   #20
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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Originally Posted by Matt Ldn View Post
spot on. People seem to think bodyweight is only used for conditioning/endurance but that is mainly because it is easier to transition between excercises so is better in conditioning workouts in my experience. Plenty of bodyweight excercises many people here wouldnt have the strength to do.
Like a strick behind the neck widge grip pullup. Very few people can do 1.
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Old 08-17-2011, 01:51 PM   #21
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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I honestly believe if you look at guys who fought before real weight lifting permeated the sport (leonard, camacho, whitaker,pryor) you will find they were much quicker of hand than guys their size nowadays and tired a bit less even late. Their opponents looked quicker, too. When I had a travelling job and didn't really lift for three years the things I noticed where that my range of motion was excellent when I sparred and that my hand speed was way way way better than I remembered. Then I started lifting again seriously and I think its back to the same somewhat limited range of motion, heavy thudding blows, slightly less fluidity, but still quick, just relatively slower and a need to conserve my punches IMO.

How many reps per set did you do. What methods did you use. The body responds differently to different approaches to weight lifting. There is no "weight lifting" in general. If you are lifting heavy weight explosively with band and chain weight(westside principles) you will find no loss in speed.
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Old 08-17-2011, 03:18 PM   #22
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

Depends. I'd say it's a 6.

I like the post above stating how when you lose a fight, it rarely is because you weren't strong enough
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Old 08-17-2011, 05:31 PM   #23
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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Agreed. Except bodybuilding is useless for boxing.

It can help, especially if you are a very physical style fighter. But it's really rare to lose a fight and say 'damn I could've won if I was stronger'. You will lose because you were out of condition (cardio) or he was too skilled. So that's where you should be spending most of your training time on. Skills and conditioning. If you still have time to lift some weights and you think it will benefit you, then go for it.

Just don't train like a bodybuilder lol.
I See Where Your Coming From, Because Sometimes I Feel I Spend A Lot Of Time Conditioning Than Lifting.
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:11 PM   #24
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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Depends. I'd say it's a 6.

I like the post above stating how when you lose a fight, it rarely is because you weren't strong enough
Conditioning is a must. Strenght/power is a bonus
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:04 PM   #25
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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Originally Posted by aramini View Post
I love my weightlifting but all the chumps in the weightlifting gym are for the most part worthless in a fight, unless they are super big and strong and grab you. I believe in the sports specific training: you get better at boxing by boxing, better at wrestling by wrestling.

Pros of weight lifting: improved tendon and muscle strength, holistic increase in pushing type strengths and ring "presence", good for clinches, aesthetic (a little muscle looks better than being Erik Morales)

cons: possible weight gain making you short for the weight (not so bad for low center of gravity in wrestling, bad for range of attack if you are used to being a distance attacker in boxing), increased oxygen requirements, "gassing" a very real possibility if overmuscled, tightness and pulls common if flexibility is not assiduously trained

I honestly believe if you look at guys who fought before real weight lifting permeated the sport (leonard, camacho, whitaker,pryor) you will find they were much quicker of hand than guys their size nowadays and tired a bit less even late. Their opponents looked quicker, too. When I had a travelling job and didn't really lift for three years the things I noticed where that my range of motion was excellent when I sparred and that my hand speed was way way way better than I remembered. Then I started lifting again seriously and I think its back to the same somewhat limited range of motion, heavy thudding blows, slightly less fluidity, but still quick, just relatively slower and a need to conserve my punches IMO.
Funny you say Whitaker, he was an avid weight lifter (big fan of benching) and he didn't do much roadwork.
When you were lifting weights you probably had residual effects that would affect your boxing training. Weights won't slow you down unless you do them alot and neglect your boxing training, best to incorporate weights as part of a periodised program so when you are focusing on boxing you don't have the residual effects that made you think that weights were slowing you down.
Explosive lifting is the best, olympic lifts etc. as they increase your rate of force production. There's no point in being really strong if you can't apply it quickly or being really quick if you don't have anything behind it. Lifting heavy and training for speed separately can increase your rate of force production but studies have shown that explosive lifting has a superior effect as you're training both ends of the force curve at the same time. So when boxers think 'weights' they need to be thinking Clean and Jerk, thinking snatch
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:15 PM   #26
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

Lefty,

What are your thoughts on overhead pressing movements in general for athletic training? I have read some athletic trainers who believe it to be overrated and unnecessary, and yet of course there are so many benefits.

Also, do you prefer to train snatches/cleans with say 50-60% maximal weight or 85-90%, thus slowing down the movement. What do you feel is more appropriate for a speed strength sport such as boxing?
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Old 08-18-2011, 12:04 AM   #27
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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Lefty,

What are your thoughts on overhead pressing movements in general for athletic training? I have read some athletic trainers who believe it to be overrated and unnecessary, and yet of course there are so many benefits.

Also, do you prefer to train snatches/cleans with say 50-60% maximal weight or 85-90%, thus slowing down the movement. What do you feel is more appropriate for a speed strength sport such as boxing?
I think overhead pressing movements can only be a good thing, along with the muscular balance and strength they can provide to the shoulders they engage the stabilising muscles helping to prevent injuries. Helps with balance, proprioception and core strength aswell.

If the lifter is very proficient at the lifts I'd say more towards that 85-90% range as you still have to move very quickly. Plyometrics I think would be more beneficial for working the pure velocity side of things. You might find some differing opinions and you'd still get great benefits from doing the lifts with less weight. If a boxer is doing olympic lifts in any form then he's already ahead of the pack imo.
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Old 08-18-2011, 03:36 AM   #28
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

In all honesty it can vary greatly.
If you lack basic muscular and body devlopment, probably a 7-8.
If you are an amateur boxer in good standing, then a 3-4 up to 6-7 if you particularly want to get stronger and more powerful.
In no way a necessity to the game, but very rarely can it harm.
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Old 08-18-2011, 06:07 AM   #29
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

Its about understanding Feel, where do the muscle nuerons get qiucker and a better response of, the slap or the tickle.
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: On A Scale Of One To Ten, How Important Is Lifting Weights?

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Its about understanding Feel, where do the muscle nuerons get qiucker and a better response of, the slap or the tickle.

this boke is a full blown creep

why dont you just talk sence for once..
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