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Old 01-14-2008, 08:01 AM   #46
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
Skills are something you learn and practice.
And of course the greatest champions in all sports are often among the men who practiced most and were taught best.

Of course talent plays a part. My point is - how can you tell where talent ends and product of training and practice begins ?

What does "talent" even mean ? You think Buster Douglas just came out of the womb throwing jabs and hooks ?
They all learned this stuff in gyms, with trainers, and who knows how much work was put in.
Douglas didn't come out of the womb throwing those double jabs no.

A lot of talent means that you can do more when you've reach your maximum development after a lot of training. For instance, watch Timo Hoffman, the modern Willard. He's a big guy who got by on his strength and size. He trains very hard but lacks the talent to really get to a high level, boxing-skill wise. But watch for instance Golota in this video:

At 2:47, Bowe throws a double left hook followed by a 1-2 and some punches, Golota blocks most of them, then from nowhere he lands a snappy, fast right hand-left hook. Or at 5:42, Golota lands a hard left hook, dodges two punches and lands a 1-2-lefthook.


BORKED



Or in this one, at 1:24, Golota lands a great 3 punch combination flush and Bowe doesn't know what's happening to him. Most big guys can train their entire life and will never be able to throw, time and land a combination as Golota did there (slow motion of it at 3:44). Or first instance at 2:17, Golota landing a combination while avoiding Bowe's punches in an exchange, rocking him. There are several more examples but you get the point.

BORKED


Why can Wladimir Klitschko put his jab, combinations and moving around the ring together much better than his brother Vitali who has trained as least as much as he did? Simple: Wladimir has more talent.
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:19 AM   #47
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

OK Chris P,
I'm not actually disputing any of that. (although I would never discourage any fighter from trying to develop those exact skills because he "seems" to lack the natural talent)

The point is, some of the guys who lack the aptitude to do all those things actually make up for it in other ways and are even more effective fighters than the ones who do it. They have their own "talent".
Some guys just never needed to box like that because they were beating everyone in their own crude unorthodox method.
It's not all about fluidity and textbook skills.

For many of the great fighters, I think an Oscar Bonavena would be harder to beat than a Buster Douglas, just as Vitali is arguably a tougher proposition for many than his "more talented" brother Wlad.
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Old 01-14-2008, 08:27 AM   #48
ChrisPontius
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Default Re: Floyd Patterson v. Buster Douglas

Of course, that is true. Golota, for all his talent, officially never really beat a top ranked heavyweight.

I agree with your general assertion, but i think a peak Douglas is a harder pill to swallow than Bonavena.
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