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Old 10-31-2011, 02:42 AM   #1
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Default Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

To the layman, he may not have any weaknesses. to an observant eye, he has them like everyone else. People want to know how Pac can beat Floyd, right? Here is it:

1. When Floyd gets hurt, he shells up and falls into the ropes. It's not even an opinion, it's a FACT. He instinctively falls into the ropes and stays on defense until the storm is over. Examples: When Corley stunned Mayweather. When Mosley hurt Mayweather twice in the 2nd round. When Ortiz hurt Mayweather with a right hook before the headbutt. He cannot fight his natural instinct and this is where he is inferior to JMM. Against Pac, this will be his downfall. If Pac hurts him, and Pac will hurt him at some point, Floyd is going to back peddle into the ropes like he normally does and Pac will continue to punish him and possible knock him down/out.

2. Against a southpaw, a conventional fighter have a much harder time seeing punches coming and sometimes falls into punches he normally wouldn't see. They're also more open to the right hand because they're usually too busy looking for the straight left. Examples: Judah's KD of Mayweather and Ortiz's right hook that stunned Mayweather before the headbutt. Corley's straight left that stunned Mayweather.

3. The Philly shell is less effective against a southpaw. Against southpaws, Floyd's defense becomes more conventional, taking away many of it's strengths. Watch all his fights against southpaws and you'll see the he used the shoulder roll a lot less, he stands up a bit straighter and squares up a bit more. When a fighter rolls his shoulder to avoid a right hand from an orthodox fighter, he's changing angle and using his shoulder to take some steam off of the punch. If he tries that against a southpaw, the roll becomes more like a straight line backwards and there is no shoulder to block the punch. You know what they say, never go back in a straight line.

4. Floyd's defense is not as impeccable as it seems. He got hurt badly against Mosley. Pac didn't. He got stunned by Ortiz a couple times. He does get hit flush and when he does, he gets stunned. Factually speaking, he's gotten more hurt in the last 5 fights than Pac has, even though Pac has faced better competition overall. Does Floyd have a suspect chin? It's possible.

There you have it. You can either put your head in the sand or see that he has weaknesses. Some fighters has only been able to take advantage of it in spots, but none of them have all the tools to take it further. Can Pac? He has the tools to take advantages of those weaknesses. The only thing left is both names on a contract.
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:45 AM   #2
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Pac will swarm Void, come at him from all angles, Void can't take that...........
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:05 AM   #3
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:10 AM   #4
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Too much reading for you guys? I guess you'd probably like it more if I say "Pac will beat Floyd because he's that damn good."
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:12 AM   #5
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalLicker View Post
To the layman, he may not have any weaknesses. to an observant eye, he has them like everyone else. People want to know how Pac can beat Floyd, right? Here is it:

1. When Floyd gets hurt, he shells up and falls into the ropes. It's not even an opinion, it's a FACT. He instinctively falls into the ropes and stays on defense until the storm is over. Examples: When Corley stunned Mayweather. When Mosley hurt Mayweather twice in the 2nd round. When Ortiz hurt Mayweather with a right hook before the headbutt. He cannot fight his natural instinct and this is where he is inferior to JMM. Against Pac, this will be his downfall. If Pac hurts him, and Pac will hurt him at some point, Floyd is going to back peddle into the ropes like he normally does and Pac will continue to punish him and possible knock him down/out.

2. Against a southpaw, a conventional fighter have a much harder time seeing punches coming and sometimes falls into punches he normally wouldn't see. They're also more open to the right hand because they're usually too busy looking for the straight left. Examples: Judah's KD of Mayweather and Ortiz's right hook that stunned Mayweather before the headbutt. Corley's straight left that stunned Mayweather.

3. The Philly shell is less effective against a southpaw. Against southpaws, Floyd's defense becomes more conventional, taking away many of it's strengths. Watch all his fights against southpaws and you'll see the he used the shoulder roll a lot less, he stands up a bit straighter and squares up a bit more. When a fighter rolls his shoulder to avoid a right hand from an orthodox fighter, he's changing angle and using his shoulder to take some steam off of the punch. If he tries that against a southpaw, the roll becomes more like a straight line backwards and there is no shoulder to block the punch. You know what they say, never go back in a straight line.

4. Floyd's defense is not as impeccable as it seems. He got hurt badly against Mosley. Pac didn't. He got stunned by Ortiz a couple times. He does get hit flush and when he does, he gets stunned. Factually speaking, he's gotten more hurt in the last 5 fights than Pac has, even though Pac has faced better competition overall. Does Floyd have a suspect chin? It's possible.

There you have it. You can either put your head in the sand or see that he has weaknesses. Some fighters has only been able to take advantage of it in spots, but none of them have all the tools to take it further. Can Pac? He has the tools to take advantages of those weaknesses. The only thing left is both names on a contract.

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Old 10-31-2011, 03:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Nothing to do with the reading, just I've read the same thing from 200 other Pactards, who've got 5 boxing brain cells between them, and one of those is on the brink.

Don't compare the Floyd who fought Corley to the Floyd that Pac would face, he's much bigger, staying on the size issue (I'm keeping it simple 'not too much reading' Ya know... Mosley and Ortiz had their rare flash of success each because they had the size to impose their will, and both of them were actually getting walked down by Floyd in the end.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Originally Posted by SJS19 View Post
Nothing to do with the reading, just I've read the same thing from 200 other Pactards, who've got 5 boxing brain cells between them, and one of those is on the brink.

Don't compare the Floyd who fought Corley to the Floyd that Pac would face, he's much bigger, staying on the size issue (I'm keeping it simple 'not too much reading' Ya know... Mosley and Ortiz had their rare flash of success each because they had the size to impose their will, and both of them were actually getting walked down by Floyd in the end.
If you don't want to disprove those weaknesses, then what's the your point?

I didn't ask for your silly insults or snide remarks. And Mosley was running for dear life from Pac regardless of his size advantage. It's funny how a small fighter was able to not only impose his will, but scare the living shit out of a fighter much bigger than he was.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:30 AM   #8
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

If PAC was a right handed fighter this fight would have been made a long time ago.
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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If PAC was a right handed fighter this fight would have been made a long time ago.
Thats insane.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:00 AM   #10
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Thats insane.

wayr these dudes come from? Money beat every southpom he ever fot!
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:20 AM   #11
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

SOMEHOW NO ONE PICKED APART MY ANALYZIS ON PAC/FLOYD FIGHT, SO ILL POST IT AGAIN HERE:

you have to understand mayweather's defensive stance (shoulder roll) and how he has evolved as a boxer (used to rely almost exclusively on pure reflexes -his reflexes is out of this world, almost all time high, prolly because he was trained at very early age, like tiger woods- , on both offense and defense, although his defensive insticts is already there.

now his reflexes has declined, his agility has decreased as well. he is now more reliant on his defense rather than pure reflex.

now picture yourself like mayweather is infront of you on a defensive stance, what do you see?
1. he is in 45 degree angle.
2. shoulder roll stance covers his left chin.
3. left hand low, arm covers the stomach portion
4. left elbow covers his left ribs.
5. right hand glove covers his right chin.
6. right elbow covers his right ribs.
what is open?
1. his left side of the face (left eye, left cheek, nose)
2. left temple
2. his chin, bottom and center
you see its a very small target, couple with cat-like reflexes, its very difficult, but it can be hit.

now what are the punches that will hit those open targets? (assuming you are fast/quick enough to overcome his reflexes, cause he bends his body, raises his elbows, moves his right glove)

1. from orthodox stance.
1a. left jab to the body, just above floyd's left arm (this will bother him if you can do quick enough, he doesnt like getting tagged)
1b. straight left jab to the left side of face (this will bother him, remember the comment on mosley fight "if you have a faster/quicker jab, i wanna see it)
1c. overhand right to the temple (you need to be tall enough and has reach adv if you are slower; quick enough if you are not as tall, and has decent reach. if you have the right power it can hurt him, ala mosley round 2. mosley baited him with the left jab to the body and came with the overhad right, another sign floyd has declined, this wont happen years before.
1d. right uppercut, this is extremely difficult to land bec he can raise his left elbow, twist his body, block with his right glove.

2. from southpaw stance:(i think you can clearly see where im going with this now)
2a. lead left to the face or body
2b. straight left to the left side of face the face
2c. straight left to the center of chin
2d. left uppercut to the bottom of chin
2e. left straight to the body
2f. right jab to the left face.
2g. overhand right to the left side of the temple
note: pac has the ability to land all these punches with the necessary quickness and power and then some, he actually throws the overhand right to the left face with power, his what i call his power right lead.

if you are quick and/or powerful enuff to land these punches, you can either bother or hurt him.

of course he prefers the orthodox style because he only needs to look out after the overhand right by shoulder rollinging it, and its only thrown once a while, he can adjust with a high guard if necessary, again ala mosley. left jabs are only going to bother him, not hurt him. he will take that away if necessay by timing it with his pull back right hand.

he doesnt like fighting soutpaw because as you can see 4 type of punches can hurt him. the right jab lands to left side of his face and he will be shouldering rolling it too often, its awkward, it bothers him. it takes away some of his offense. so what he does, he becomes more aggressive. he initiates the offense more, lead right to the face or body, left hook to the face.

now, with everything in place, enter manny pacquiao.

in this matchup, floyd has the reach advantage, around 5" iirc. what does this means? it means pac has to close the distance first before he can land his punches. this is the exact reason why i favor floyd slightly (with the assumption that all their boxing attributes remain constant when they fight). pac has to do 2 things while floyd only one, maintain the distance at all cost.

what i think floyd will do in this fight:
1. maintain distance, with his jab and/or footwork, circling and moving.
2. he sneaks his lead right to the face or stomach (he cant do this too often because pac can time it, then its all over) and clinch.
3. pac closes the distance, he clinches.
4. he cant allow pac to back him up esp in a corner because pac is going to tee off on him.
5. make it an ugly, ala hopkins. clinch and rough him up inside: elbows, low blows, head butt, body slam, turns back so pac hits him in the back of the head, lots of acting to try penalize/disqualify pac.
6. lots of tactical delays: initiate offense and then clinch, walk pac across the ring, ala tyson -holyfield 1.
7. just make the real ugly and slow to limit pacs workrate.

note: i think floyd will never try to walk down pac, not with the shoulder roll though, maybe with a high guard.

what pac needs to do here: (i think i posted this in other thread).
1. pac will do his usual tricks: really quick, really fast in and out to close the distance.
2. do his usual tricks when he is at his puching range: lead left to the face or body and spin
3. bait and feint floyd and land his fading right hook to the face, ala margarito round 10, iic.
4. try and tag floyd with his power lead right.
5. rinse and repeat.

note: pac's ultimate goal here is to back floyd up in the corner and land his punches. ortiz has had decent success with floyd, im sure pac will have too. however, when floyd ALLOWS an opponent to tee off on him in the corner, thats because he knows he can defend the punches, and he wants to TIRE them, **** up their stamina. once, an opponent is tire enough and lose some sting in this punches, floyd will start trading/exchanging -ala hatton later rounds, and be more offensive. i think floyd will clinch once he is backed in the corner by pac.

so, on paper: floyd 60 (-) and pac 40 (+). less than 20% gap is very small gap, it can be overcome by sheer determination alone.

IMPORTANT: imagine other boxers' (ortiz, berto, oscar, mosley, marquez, margarito, cotto, martinez, williams, etc..) offense, punches slot into mayweather's defense. then you will know whether its a mistmatch or difficult fight for mayweather.

my 2cents.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnn View Post
SOMEHOW NO ONE PICKED APART MY ANALYZIS ON PAC/FLOYD FIGHT, SO ILL POST IT AGAIN HERE:

you have to understand mayweather's defensive stance (shoulder roll) and how he has evolved as a boxer (used to rely almost exclusively on pure reflexes -his reflexes is out of this world, almost all time high, prolly because he was trained at very early age, like tiger woods- , on both offense and defense, although his defensive insticts is already there.

now his reflexes has declined, his agility has decreased as well. he is now more reliant on his defense rather than pure reflex.

now picture yourself like mayweather is infront of you on a defensive stance, what do you see?
1. he is in 45 degree angle.
2. shoulder roll stance covers his left chin.
3. left hand low, arm covers the stomach portion
4. left elbow covers his left ribs.
5. right hand glove covers his right chin.
6. right elbow covers his right ribs.
what is open?
1. his left side of the face (left eye, left cheek, nose)
2. left temple
2. his chin, bottom and center
you see its a very small target, couple with cat-like reflexes, its very difficult, but it can be hit.

now what are the punches that will hit those open targets? (assuming you are fast/quick enough to overcome his reflexes, cause he bends his body, raises his elbows, moves his right glove)

1. from orthodox stance.
1a. left jab to the body, just above floyd's left arm (this will bother him if you can do quick enough, he doesnt like getting tagged)
1b. straight left jab to the left side of face (this will bother him, remember the comment on mosley fight "if you have a faster/quicker jab, i wanna see it)
1c. overhand right to the temple (you need to be tall enough and has reach adv if you are slower; quick enough if you are not as tall, and has decent reach. if you have the right power it can hurt him, ala mosley round 2. mosley baited him with the left jab to the body and came with the overhad right, another sign floyd has declined, this wont happen years before.
1d. right uppercut, this is extremely difficult to land bec he can raise his left elbow, twist his body, block with his right glove.

2. from southpaw stance:(i think you can clearly see where im going with this now)
2a. lead left to the face or body
2b. straight left to the left side of face the face
2c. straight left to the center of chin
2d. left uppercut to the bottom of chin
2e. left straight to the body
2f. right jab to the left face.
2g. overhand right to the left side of the temple
note: pac has the ability to land all these punches with the necessary quickness and power and then some, he actually throws the overhand right to the left face with power, his what i call his power right lead.

if you are quick and/or powerful enuff to land these punches, you can either bother or hurt him.

of course he prefers the orthodox style because he only needs to look out after the overhand right by shoulder rollinging it, and its only thrown once a while, he can adjust with a high guard if necessary, again ala mosley. left jabs are only going to bother him, not hurt him. he will take that away if necessay by timing it with his pull back right hand.

he doesnt like fighting soutpaw because as you can see 4 type of punches can hurt him. the right jab lands to left side of his face and he will be shouldering rolling it too often, its awkward, it bothers him. it takes away some of his offense. so what he does, he becomes more aggressive. he initiates the offense more, lead right to the face or body, left hook to the face.

now, with everything in place, enter manny pacquiao.

in this matchup, floyd has the reach advantage, around 5" iirc. what does this means? it means pac has to close the distance first before he can land his punches. this is the exact reason why i favor floyd slightly (with the assumption that all their boxing attributes remain constant when they fight). pac has to do 2 things while floyd only one, maintain the distance at all cost.

what i think floyd will do in this fight:
1. maintain distance, with his jab and/or footwork, circling and moving.
2. he sneaks his lead right to the face or stomach (he cant do this too often because pac can time it, then its all over) and clinch.
3. pac closes the distance, he clinches.
4. he cant allow pac to back him up esp in a corner because pac is going to tee off on him.
5. make it an ugly, ala hopkins. clinch and rough him up inside: elbows, low blows, head butt, body slam, turns back so pac hits him in the back of the head, lots of acting to try penalize/disqualify pac.
6. lots of tactical delays: initiate offense and then clinch, walk pac across the ring, ala tyson -holyfield 1.
7. just make the real ugly and slow to limit pacs workrate.

note: i think floyd will never try to walk down pac, not with the shoulder roll though, maybe with a high guard.

what pac needs to do here: (i think i posted this in other thread).
1. pac will do his usual tricks: really quick, really fast in and out to close the distance.
2. do his usual tricks when he is at his puching range: lead left to the face or body and spin
3. bait and feint floyd and land his fading right hook to the face, ala margarito round 10, iic.
4. try and tag floyd with his power lead right.
5. rinse and repeat.

note: pac's ultimate goal here is to back floyd up in the corner and land his punches. ortiz has had decent success with floyd, im sure pac will have too. however, when floyd ALLOWS an opponent to tee off on him in the corner, thats because he knows he can defend the punches, and he wants to TIRE them, **** up their stamina. once, an opponent is tire enough and lose some sting in this punches, floyd will start trading/exchanging -ala hatton later rounds, and be more offensive. i think floyd will clinch once he is backed in the corner by pac.

so, on paper: floyd 60 (-) and pac 40 (+). less than 20% gap is very small gap, it can be overcome by sheer determination alone.

IMPORTANT: imagine other boxers' (ortiz, berto, oscar, mosley, marquez, margarito, cotto, martinez, williams, etc..) offense, punches slot into mayweather's defense. then you will know whether its a mistmatch or difficult fight for mayweather.

my 2cents.
No one has picked apart because they know it's right.

We also know how each fighter reacts to getting hit, and it's pretty obvious that Pac handles it much better.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:50 AM   #13
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Default Re: Breaking down Floyd's weaknesses

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Originally Posted by MetalLicker View Post
No one has picked apart because they know it's right.

We also know how each fighter reacts to getting hit, and it's pretty obvious that Pac handles it much better.
pac's chin is exponentially better than floyd's. pac's chin allows to blitz his opponents wiith willd abandon, with no regards for return fires, bec he knows it will hold.

floyd's cat-like reflexes (earlier) and his defense (current), masks his decent chin. he fights the way he fights because he need to constantly shield his chin.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:53 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by sunnn View Post
pac's chin must be good cuz he got no D-fens!

floyd's cat-like reflexes and his defense r cuz he is smart 2 not want brayn damaj!
FIXED 4 u!
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:26 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by MetalLicker View Post
No one has picked apart because they know it's right.

We also know how each fighter reacts to getting hit, and it's pretty obvious that Pac handles it much better.
after pac-hatton, i put it at 60-40 for floyd. then after pac-cotto, i thought pac is gaining on floyd, but i cant say 55-45 for floyd, 10 is very small gap, you are better off with 50/50. but i think floyd has slight advantage because he has longer reach. so i just put it at 60- and 40+ to emphasize pac's improvement.

also, i put my analysis out there, so everyone can be on the same page, when there is talk about pac-floyd.

im very interested to see floyd-martinez even at 150, because we can clearly the state of his legs/agility because he has to overcome martinez's reach adv. i hope its at 154 though.
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