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Old 11-14-2011, 11:13 AM   #1
s1nn3d
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Default Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

For argument sake, whether officially or not, let's say Marquez won all his three fights with Pacquiao. Yet all of them were close and controversial, at the least, subject to debate, as compared to Erik Morales' unanimous win over Pacquiao.

Let's face it, Morales got an unquestionable win over Pacquiao in his first try that is written in the record books for all eternity and without an asterix written on it, while Marquez, on the other hand wasn't able to in paper, even after 3 tries. Why... How come?

Morales said, he based his fight plan against Pacquiao watching the Marquez-Pacquiao 1 fight, and it paid divivend. He won and nobody questioned its legitimacy. Yet the man whom the "blueprint" was supposedly based upon, can't do the same himself in 36 rounds and in 9 different judge's scorecards.

Is it because Jmm lacks the killer instict mentality that Morales have? Or he doesn't have the aggression/warrior mentality that Morales has? IMHO, compared to JMM, Morales countered Pacquiao better to the point he consistently made him retreat after heated exchanges. And who could forget the last round of that epic battle where Morales went soutpaw and engaged Pacquiao to his own game.

JMM, on the other, was for me, just content being able to punch back after Pacquiao attacks. No follow through, so to speak, that most probably would have made Pacquiao retreat. And majority say Manny can't fight in his back foot. How come Marquez didn't take full advantage of that as compared to what Morales did.

On a side note, was Nacho telling JMM we has winning wrong? Or to say the least ill-advised? Or then again, was it JMM's seeming "lack" of killer instinct that he didn't pour it all 'til the end knowing in his 2 previous fights with Pacquiao, every round counts.

Thoughts?

For the record, I scored the fight for Marquez, 115-113.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

He was the one controlling the fight thuroughly, there is no reason for him to panick and go balls to the wall when he is clearly outboxing his foe.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

JMM could have probably closed the championship rounds stronger, but that's not the real point here. Boxing is infested with judges who can't score a fight competently. JMM fought pefectly and shouldn't have needed to chase a knockout or a knockdown - he had successfully outboxed his opponent over the course of the 12 rounds. Likewise, Nacho told JMM he was winning because he was, and I don't think it had any baring on the way he approached the last two rounds or how the judges scored the fight. JMM would have only become vulnerable had he chased a knockout.

The crux of the matter. The judges didn't do their job.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

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Is it because Jmm lacks the killer instict mentality that Morales have?
No. It was because the judging wasn't fare. JMM boxed beautifully. He didn't need killer instinct to get the better of Manny. He just needed smarts. And he displayed that perfectly.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMagic View Post
He was the one controlling the fight thuroughly, there is no reason for him to panick and go balls to the wall when he is clearly outboxing his foe.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addie View Post
JMM could have probably closed the championship rounds stronger, but that's not the real point here. Boxing is infested with judges who can't score a fight competently. JMM fought pefectly and shouldn't have needed to chase a knockout or a knockdown - he had successfully outboxed his opponent over the course of the 12 rounds. Likewise, Nacho told JMM he was winning because he was, and I don't think it had any baring on the way he approached the last two rounds or how the judges scored the fight. JMM would have only become vulnerable had he chased a knockout.

The crux of the matter. The judges didn't do their job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
No. It was because the judging wasn't fare. JMM boxed beautifully. He didn't need killer instinct to get the better of Manny. He just needed smarts. And he displayed that perfectly.
Nothing more needs to be added.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:19 AM   #6
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

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Originally Posted by MrMagic View Post
He was the one controlling the fight thuroughly, there is no reason for him to panick and go balls to the wall when he is clearly outboxing his foe.
I'd agree with this. It's just intelligence. Pacquiao's got power and there was absolutely no reason to risk a knockdown because he was controlling the fight.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:26 AM   #7
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

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Originally Posted by MrMagic View Post
He was the one controlling the fight thuroughly, there is no reason for him to panick and go balls to the wall when he is clearly outboxing his foe.
It is true, there is no reason for him to panic, as his strategy was working. However, knowing that in his two previous fights with Pacquiao, every round countsa as for me, he cruised in the latter rounds and was just avoiding to get knockdown or get stunned, instead of sticking to his strategy of baiting Pacquiao to attack and then counter.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:28 AM   #8
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

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Originally Posted by s1nn3d View Post
It is true, there is no reason for him to panic, as his strategy was working. However, knowing that in his two previous fights with Pacquiao, every round countsa as for me, he cruised in the latter rounds and was just avoiding to get knockdown or get stunned, instead of sticking to his strategy of baiting Pacquiao to attack and then counter.
Also, guys like Kellerman and Arum kept pushing the "the knockdowns were the difference in their both bouts" down his throat. So with that said, I'm sure Marquez was thinking going into the 9th and 10th round that.. "I got this, just don't do something stupid and get knocked down".
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:30 AM   #9
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

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Originally Posted by Addie View Post
JMM could have probably closed the championship rounds stronger, but that's not the real point here. Boxing is infested with judges who can't score a fight competently. JMM fought pefectly and shouldn't have needed to chase a knockout or a knockdown - he had successfully outboxed his opponent over the course of the 12 rounds. Likewise, Nacho told JMM he was winning because he was, and I don't think it had any baring on the way he approached the last two rounds or how the judges scored the fight. JMM would have only become vulnerable had he chased a knockout.

The crux of the matter. The judges didn't do their job.
It was a close fight. And personally, it was only one out of the three scorecards that I think got the ire of many... the 116-112 score in favor of Pacquiao.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s1nn3d View Post
For argument sake, whether officially or not, let's say Marquez won all his three fights with Pacquiao. Yet all of them were close and controversial, at the least, subject to debate, as compared to Erik Morales' unanimous win over Pacquiao.

Let's face it, Morales got an unquestionable win over Pacquiao in his first try that is written in the record books for all eternity and without an asterix written on it, while Marquez, on the other hand wasn't able to in paper, even after 3 tries. Why... How come?

Morales said, he based his fight plan against Pacquiao watching the Marquez-Pacquiao 1 fight, and it paid divivend. He won and nobody questioned its legitimacy. Yet the man whom the "blueprint" was supposedly based upon, can't do the same himself in 36 rounds and in 9 different judge's scorecards.

Is it because Jmm lacks the killer instict mentality that Morales have? Or he doesn't have the aggression/warrior mentality that Morales has? IMHO, compared to JMM, Morales countered Pacquiao better to the point he consistently made him retreat after heated exchanges. And who could forget the last round of that epic battle where Morales went soutpaw and engaged Pacquiao to his own game.

JMM, on the other, was for me, just content being able to punch back after Pacquiao attacks. No follow through, so to speak, that most probably would have made Pacquiao retreat. And majority say Manny can't fight in his back foot. How come Marquez didn't take full advantage of that as compared to what Morales did.

On a side note, was Nacho telling JMM we has winning wrong? Or to say the least ill-advised? Or then again, was it JMM's seeming "lack" of killer instinct that he didn't pour it all 'til the end knowing in his 2 previous fights with Pacquiao, every round counts.

Thoughts?

For the record, I scored the fight for Marquez, 115-113.
No he has great instinct (i.e. Juan Diaz, Joel Casamayor, etc..) It's just that Pac is too dangerous for someone like Marquez to try to knock out. If it comes then so be it but I think he is and was better off just outboxing him and when neccessary exchange blows.

BTW, I had the exact same score initially for Marquez.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:31 AM   #11
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

Quote:
Originally Posted by s1nn3d View Post
It was a close fight. And personally, it was only one out of the three scorecards that I think got the ire of many... the 116-112 score in favor of Pacquiao.
I'm not sure. I scored it for a second time and despite actually looking to score rounds for Manny, I still had JMM up. He landed the cleaner punches in virtually all of the rounds spare 2 or 3.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:32 AM   #12
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

Marquez should have gone full-throttle when he opened up a huge cut on Pac's eye with a headbutt.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

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Originally Posted by Uncle Rico View Post
No. It was because the judging wasn't fare. JMM boxed beautifully. He didn't need killer instinct to get the better of Manny. He just needed smarts. And he displayed that perfectly.
Fair enough. But like I mentioned in my opening post, how come Morales who based his strategy in his bout with Pacquiao, was able to come up with a clear cut, unanimous decision? He left no round that is close to judge that could have made the fight closed. While on the other hand, JMM, the supposed kryptonite of Pacquiao, had close rounds in all his three bouts with Pacquiao.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not justifying last Saturday's result. I'm just wondering how come Morales made it look easy to defeat if not dominate Pacquiao and yet, Marquez always comes out with a close fight. Is it the lack of killer instinct? Or the difference between Morales and JMM's fighting style? Or something else like the fear of getting knockdowned again?
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:42 AM   #14
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

not really. he just really needs to fight the perfect fight to control pacquiao and avoid being tagged and knockdowned like he was previously. it's not really the dominating type but it's enough to sway most boxing fans to believe that he won it although official judges didn't prefer his style.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:51 AM   #15
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Default Re: Does JMM lack the killer instinct metality?

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Originally Posted by Don't Sleep View Post
No he has great instinct (i.e. Juan Diaz, Joel Casamayor, etc..) It's just that Pac is too dangerous for someone like Marquez to try to knock out. If it comes then so be it but I think he is and was better off just outboxing him and when neccessary exchange blows.

BTW, I had the exact same score initially for Marquez.
No doubt JMM has a good instinct. If how you think is the way JMM thinks, is it fair enough then to say he lacks the "killer" instinct by continuing to baiting Pacquiao to attack and counter him up to the 12th and final round. I say this cause a number of people are saying he cruised during the latter rounds.

What you said is like saying why fix something that is not broken. But for those that has the killer instinct, maintaining the status quo isn't enough. They want to finish things decisively or to say the least on a high note. And this is what Morales did during his first fight with Pacquiao. Even if he knew he was ahead, he went toe to toe in the last round to the extent he went south paw to the dismay of his trainer. And for that, noone questioned his victory over Pacquiao.
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