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Old 11-26-2011, 11:17 AM   #1
general zod
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Default When is a fighter past prime?

My view is that the state of a fighters reflexes is the clock by which to guage which class a fighter belongs to:

Green contender:
Peak reflexes, but doesnt have the experience you use them to the best of their ability

Prime:
Peak reflexes with the experience to use them to their fullest

Past prime:
Reflexes have slowed down

Shot:
Reflexes are completely gone and shouldnt be fighting anymore.

Applying this to Toney:
Green until around McCallum I
Prime form McCallum I - ???
Past prime by the time he got to cw
shot - post Sam Peter I

Anyone here agree or disagree?

ps:
Not sure when Toney was past prime
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:22 AM   #2
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Pac and PBF are on Past Prime category
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:24 AM   #3
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

oki oki let me try:

Duran:

till buchanan= green
lightweight reign + montreal = prime
from leonard 2- hearns= past prime
post hearns= shot

Ali:
Green= till liston 2
prime= till his forced retirement
past prime- comeback till manilla
shot= after manilla

But it gets more dificult with guys like wlad,morales,pac,hopkins
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:24 AM   #4
general zod
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EJDiaZ View Post
Pac and PBF are on Past Prime category
When do you think Mayweather's prime ended?
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:28 AM   #5
general zod
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
oki oki let me try:

Duran:

till buchanan= green
lightweight reign + montreal = prime
from leonard 2- hearns= past prime
post hearns= shot
You think he was shot after Hearns?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
Ali:
Green= till liston 2
prime= till his forced retirement
past prime- comeback till manilla
shot= after manilla
I agree with this
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
But it gets more dificult with guys like wlad,morales,pac,hopkins
True.

I have read people stating that Hopkins was green until the Johnson fight. Prime from Johnson to Joppy.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:32 AM   #6
cesare-borgia
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Yeah or even more past prime, he still did well vs moore and barkley,but obviously not the same duran from several years earlier, when would you say his shot period started?
I would say hopkins was green till mercado 2, prime till taylro fights, past prime till pavlik and maybe physically shot after that but still able to go strong on ring iq which makes it seem he is past prime level now.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:32 AM   #7
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
oki oki let me try:

Duran:
post hearns= shot
I disagree with this. Duran put on a great performance against Barkley, fights after he got knocked out by Hearns. After that he was shot. That was probably his last great effort.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:32 AM   #8
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

According to Pactards, Pacquiao has been throughout his whole career.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:34 AM   #9
general zod
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
Yeah or even more past prime, he still did well vs moore and barkley,but obviously not the same duran from several years earlier,
I would say he was very past prime by the time he got to mw
Quote:
Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
when would you say his shot period started?
Not sure. Sometime after the Barkley fight
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:40 AM   #10
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

When he gets beat by somebody that wasn't fit to shine his shoes before. Like Tyson vs. McBride for instance.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:43 AM   #11
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by floyd_g.o.a.t View Post
According to Pactards, Pacquiao has been throughout his whole career.
Slightly past prime since the cotto fight, might be past prime now since mosley or just bothered by the style, its not clear but he isnt the same as in 2009 but still good enough to keep up with elite level and pick up wins.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
When he gets beat by somebody that wasn't fit to shine his shoes before. Like Tyson vs. McBride for instance.
Thats shot
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:44 AM   #13
general zod
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by shimmy View Post
When he gets beat by somebody that wasn't fit to shine his shoes before. Like Tyson vs. McBride for instance.
I have Tyson as green until Berbick
Prime from Berbick to prison
Past prime post prison - ????

Not sure when I can accurately say he was shot

But he was definately finished by the time he fought McBride
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:45 AM   #14
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cesare-borgia View Post
Thats shot
Very true.
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Old 11-26-2011, 11:49 AM   #15
general zod
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Default Re: When is a fighter past prime?

Roy Jones
Green: up until he fought Toney
Prime: Toney - Johnson*

I know he was slowing down before this, but that was due to him not taking his training as serious as he did before. I also dont believe he was parmantly damaged by the weight loss either. He was past prime after Johnson imo. Manny Steward said that if a fighter gets koed twice in a row then he can get some form of brain injury which decreases his punch resistance.

Very past prime around the Tito fight
Shot by the time he fought Green.
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