When is a fighter past prime?

general zod · 11-26-2011, 11:17 AM

My view is that the state of a fighters reflexes is the clock by which to guage which class a fighter belongs to:

Green contender:
Peak reflexes, but doesnt have the experience you use them to the best of their ability

Prime:
Peak reflexes with the experience to use them to their fullest

Past prime:
Reflexes have slowed down

Shot:
Reflexes are completely gone and shouldnt be fighting anymore.

Applying this to Toney:
Green until around McCallum I
Prime form McCallum I - ???
Past prime by the time he got to cw
shot - post Sam Peter I

Anyone here agree or disagree?

ps:
Not sure when Toney was past prime

EJDiaZ · 11-26-2011, 11:22 AM

Pac and PBF are on Past Prime category

cesare-borgia · 11-26-2011, 11:24 AM

oki oki let me try:

Duran:

till buchanan= green
lightweight reign + montreal = prime
from leonard 2- hearns= past prime
post hearns= shot

Ali:
Green= till liston 2
prime= till his forced retirement
past prime- comeback till manilla
shot= after manilla

But it gets more dificult with guys like wlad,morales,pac,hopkins

general zod · 11-26-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJDiaZ

Pac and PBF are on Past Prime category

When do you think Mayweather's prime ended?

general zod · 11-26-2011, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesare-borgia

oki oki let me try:

Duran:

till buchanan= green
lightweight reign + montreal = prime
from leonard 2- hearns= past prime
post hearns= shot

You think he was shot after Hearns?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesare-borgia

Ali:
Green= till liston 2
prime= till his forced retirement
past prime- comeback till manilla
shot= after manilla

I agree with this

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesare-borgia

But it gets more dificult with guys like wlad,morales,pac,hopkins

True.

I have read people stating that Hopkins was green until the Johnson fight. Prime from Johnson to Joppy.

cesare-borgia · 11-26-2011, 11:32 AM

Yeah or even more past prime, he still did well vs moore and barkley,but obviously not the same duran from several years earlier, when would you say his shot period started?
I would say hopkins was green till mercado 2, prime till taylro fights, past prime till pavlik and maybe physically shot after that but still able to go strong on ring iq which makes it seem he is past prime level now.

tommygun711 · 11-26-2011, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesare-borgia

oki oki let me try:

Duran:
post hearns= shot

I disagree with this. Duran put on a great performance against Barkley, fights after he got knocked out by Hearns. After that he was shot. That was probably his last great effort.

floyd_g.o.a.t · 11-26-2011, 11:32 AM

According to Pactards, Pacquiao has been throughout his whole career.

general zod · 11-26-2011, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesare-borgia

Yeah or even more past prime, he still did well vs moore and barkley,but obviously not the same duran from several years earlier,

I would say he was very past prime by the time he got to mw

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesare-borgia

when would you say his shot period started?

Not sure. Sometime after the Barkley fight

shimmy · 11-26-2011, 11:40 AM

When he gets beat by somebody that wasn't fit to shine his shoes before. Like Tyson vs. McBride for instance.

cesare-borgia · 11-26-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by floyd_g.o.a.t

According to Pactards, Pacquiao has been throughout his whole career.

Slightly past prime since the cotto fight, might be past prime now since mosley or just bothered by the style, its not clear but he isnt the same as in 2009 but still good enough to keep up with elite level and pick up wins.

cesare-borgia · 11-26-2011, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

When he gets beat by somebody that wasn't fit to shine his shoes before. Like Tyson vs. McBride for instance.

Thats shot

general zod · 11-26-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

When he gets beat by somebody that wasn't fit to shine his shoes before. Like Tyson vs. McBride for instance.

I have Tyson as green until Berbick
Prime from Berbick to prison
Past prime post prison - ????

Not sure when I can accurately say he was shot

But he was definately finished by the time he fought McBride

shimmy · 11-26-2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cesare-borgia

Thats shot

Very true.

general zod · 11-26-2011, 11:49 AM

Roy Jones
Green: up until he fought Toney
Prime: Toney - Johnson*

I know he was slowing down before this, but that was due to him not taking his training as serious as he did before. I also dont believe he was parmantly damaged by the weight loss either. He was past prime after Johnson imo. Manny Steward said that if a fighter gets koed twice in a row then he can get some form of brain injury which decreases his punch resistance.

Very past prime around the Tito fight
Shot by the time he fought Green.

11-26-2011, 11:17 AM	#1
general zod Into Darkness ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SS Enterprise Posts: 2,976 vCash: 500	When is a fighter past prime? My view is that the state of a fighters reflexes is the clock by which to guage which class a fighter belongs to: Green contender: Peak reflexes, but doesnt have the experience you use them to the best of their ability Prime: Peak reflexes with the experience to use them to their fullest Past prime: Reflexes have slowed down Shot: Reflexes are completely gone and shouldnt be fighting anymore. Applying this to Toney: Green until around McCallum I Prime form McCallum I - ??? Past prime by the time he got to cw shot - post Sam Peter I Anyone here agree or disagree? ps: Not sure when Toney was past prime
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11-26-2011, 11:22 AM	#2
EJDiaZ Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 2,364 vCash: 500	Re: When is a fighter past prime? Pac and PBF are on Past Prime category
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11-26-2011, 11:24 AM	#3
cesare-borgia Übermensch in fieri East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Weed capital of the world Posts: 16,333 vCash: 1000	Re: When is a fighter past prime? oki oki let me try: Duran: till buchanan= green lightweight reign + montreal = prime from leonard 2- hearns= past prime post hearns= shot Ali: Green= till liston 2 prime= till his forced retirement past prime- comeback till manilla shot= after manilla But it gets more dificult with guys like wlad,morales,pac,hopkins
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11-26-2011, 11:32 AM	#6
cesare-borgia Übermensch in fieri East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Weed capital of the world Posts: 16,333 vCash: 1000	Re: When is a fighter past prime? Yeah or even more past prime, he still did well vs moore and barkley,but obviously not the same duran from several years earlier, when would you say his shot period started? I would say hopkins was green till mercado 2, prime till taylro fights, past prime till pavlik and maybe physically shot after that but still able to go strong on ring iq which makes it seem he is past prime level now.
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11-26-2011, 11:32 AM	#8
floyd_g.o.a.t Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 9,295 vCash: 15214	Re: When is a fighter past prime? According to Pactards, Pacquiao has been throughout his whole career.
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11-26-2011, 11:40 AM	#10
shimmy Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 2,319 vCash: 75	Re: When is a fighter past prime? When he gets beat by somebody that wasn't fit to shine his shoes before. Like Tyson vs. McBride for instance.
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11-26-2011, 11:49 AM	#15
general zod Into Darkness ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: SS Enterprise Posts: 2,976 vCash: 500	Re: When is a fighter past prime? Roy Jones Green: up until he fought Toney Prime: Toney - Johnson* I know he was slowing down before this, but that was due to him not taking his training as serious as he did before. I also dont believe he was parmantly damaged by the weight loss either. He was past prime after Johnson imo. Manny Steward said that if a fighter gets koed twice in a row then he can get some form of brain injury which decreases his punch resistance. Very past prime around the Tito fight Shot by the time he fought Green.
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