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Old 12-19-2011, 08:39 AM   #16
FastHands(beeb)
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

Norton deserved the decision...simple as that. Ali knew it...Norton knew it...look at the way both reacted at the final bell.

There's some serious revisionist bull**** going on to suggest otherwise...it's become an urban myth with Ali sycophants who claim Ali won this fight. If it's repeated often enough, it becomes the truth...or so it seems.

Ali got the decision for financial reasons alone...to keep the gravy train rolling. Norton deserved a 4th fight, but Ali didn't want it...Norton should have got first crack at Leon too...Spinks' people didn't want that fight - offered Norton $ 200k thinking he would turn it down...but he didn't. One unlucky fighter, Kenny Norton.

As Norton said...Ali is the only fighter who can get a hometown decision in any town in the world.

After the fight Ali said "if I can't even beat Norton..."

Norton got shafted...end of story. Ali fans can dress it up any way they want...but it's the truth.
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:10 PM   #17
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

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Originally Posted by FastHands(beeb) View Post
Norton deserved the decision...simple as that. Ali knew it...Norton knew it...look at the way both reacted at the final bell.

There's some serious revisionist bull**** going on to suggest otherwise...it's become an urban myth with Ali sycophants who claim Ali won this fight. If it's repeated often enough, it becomes the truth...or so it seems.

Ali got the decision for financial reasons alone...to keep the gravy train rolling. Norton deserved a 4th fight, but Ali didn't want it...Norton should have got first crack at Leon too...Spinks' people didn't want that fight - offered Norton $ 200k thinking he would turn it down...but he didn't. One unlucky fighter, Kenny Norton.

As Norton said...Ali is the only fighter who can get a hometown decision in any town in the world.

After the fight Ali said "if I can't even beat Norton..."

Norton got shafted...end of story. Ali fans can dress it up any way they want...but it's the truth.
You can try and one-up boxing fans who know Ali won with your very last sentence but Ali won the fight all be it razor thin margin. Dress is it up any way you want, but Norton tried to cruise in the last round and was out boxed by the champion in that round. Round which made the difference in the fight.
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Old 12-21-2011, 01:56 AM   #18
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

It is a ridiculous myth that Ali outboxed Norton in the final round. Ali's jabs were missing all night. Norton landed some hard shots that round.

I've asked this before: is there a die-hard Ali fan who can produce slow motion footage of Ali landing ten clean, meaningful punches in this fight? If so, I want to see it. He landed almost nothing, just a few pokes here and there. Norton kicked his ass all night, just as Shavers did a year later.

Though I don't like the commonly used phrase on this site -"nuthugger" - there isn't any fighter in history who comes close to having as many nuthuggers as Ali, and thus boxing history is distorted because of it.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:33 AM   #19
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

I had Norton winning all three fights the last time I sat down to watch them. He won the third by seizing the crucial final round; a round where Ali did close to no damage with his pecking jab.

Then again, I always had Norton up over Holmes and Young in their individual meetings too. That man was simply poison against that style, in my opinion.
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Old 12-21-2011, 08:59 AM   #20
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

The scoring on a rounds basis hurt Norton here. There was a case for at least two 10-8 rounds when Ali did nothing. Norton also won rounds big when Ali shaded them.

Not a robbery bit I can't blame Norton for being ****ed.
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Old 12-21-2011, 09:56 AM   #21
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

Norton got robbed that night...one of the NY newspapers said:"If Ali won that fight last night...then the Japanese won WWII"...
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Old 12-21-2011, 04:12 PM   #22
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

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Originally Posted by Gyro View Post
You can try and one-up boxing fans who know Ali won with your very last sentence but Ali won the fight all be it razor thin margin. Dress is it up any way you want, but Norton tried to cruise in the last round and was out boxed by the champion in that round. Round which made the difference in the fight.
This kind of goes some way to proving my point "boxing fans who know Ali won". Please! Ken Norton deserved the title that night - just look at the reactions of Nortn & Ali at the end of the 15th round - do you really think Ali thought he had won the fight? I stand by every word of my post...and will to my dying day. No-one can convince me that Ali deserved the decision that night.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:24 AM   #23
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

Just re-watched the fight. I saw espn program 30 for 30 titled robbed and decided to give the fight another look. I still come up with the same score I did in the past, 8-7 for Norton. While not a robbery I thought Ken nudged it. Quite simply Norton was the aggressor throughout and he was effective. His jab had much more authority and landed flush more often and his body work was phenomenal. He landed the far heavier shots. If I scored rounds "even" the margin would be wider for Norton as I gave most close rounds to Ali and he had the more debatable rounds. Rounds 1 Ali (easy) 2 Norton (debatable) (close all three announcers score for Norton) rounds 3 Ali close(debatable main announcer had for Norton) round 4 Norton(easy), 5,6 Norton (big) 7 Ali(easy), 8 Norton(big) 9 Ali (moving well only takes one big right)(press scoring two have it even) 10 Ali (close)(again even for some), 11 Ali (close), 12 Norton (close), 13 Ali(close), 14 Norton(close), 15 Norton (Ali ran in the final round hardly throwing a meaningful punch Norton picked off the weak jab and Norton won the only 2 exchanges big of the round. Stole it in last 15 seconds and forced the action entire round.)
Very tough fight to score as from 11th on it's tough to score so I don't consider it a robbery. Of the rounds clearly won by a particular fighter I give Ali 1 and 7 and Norton 4,5,6,8
Rest is open for interpretation. Norton 2,4,5,6,8,12,14,15
Ali, 1,3,7,9,10,11,13. However I could see round three go to Norton and round ten be called even. Difficult fight to score for sure.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:29 AM   #24
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

Quick question, would that Norton have beaten the Larry Holmes he fought? I do think so.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:45 AM   #25
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

Larry had a torn bicep in his fight with Norton. So this Norton may have won but I always felt Holmes was better than Norton. Holmes was great. He was the type of fighter that if you pushed him he could go just that little but extra. So if Norton fought better in their fight there is a chance Larry could of went even higher. But in short this Norton was better than the one Holmes faced.
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Old 12-26-2014, 03:53 AM   #26
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

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Norton won that fight. The look on Ali's face as the verdict was being read tells it all. Even in the last round Norton put some serious hurt on Ali. Ali may have landed more to the effect of light jabs but Ken bombed Ali into the ropes and was landing hard shots at the bell. I've said it before...The powers that be were not ready to let thier cash cow go just yet. Norton as champion wouldn't draw the crowds and publicity that Ali would and did. People may say that a close fight goes to the champion and that's ok but Holmes won the title from Norton by a point. Shouldn't Norton have kept the title in a close fight? It's all politics. Norton didn't have the charisma and drawing power of Ali or even Holmes but he was a useful contender and dangerous opponent...Perfect for the times.
Gentleman, this bout will be long debated but Ali wasn't hurt in the last seconds attack by Ken and was landing at the same time though lighter. Ken lost the first two and a half minutes of the last round, in order to give it to him you have to pretend it didn't exist. In addition to Mercante being highly respected as a referee and judge in scoring for Ali the AP also had Ali winning the bout and the UPI had it by one round for Ken. The WWS boxing panel that went through the bout round by round with Norton present scored it a draw, so there was no conspiracy or powers that be deciding any outcome.
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:06 AM   #27
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

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Originally Posted by The Long Count View Post
Just re-watched the fight. I saw espn program 30 for 30 titled robbed and decided to give the fight another look. I still come up with the same score I did in the past, 8-7 for Norton. While not a robbery I thought Ken nudged it. Quite simply Norton was the aggressor throughout and he was effective. His jab had much more authority and landed flush more often and his body work was phenomenal. He landed the far heavier shots. If I scored rounds "even" the margin would be wider for Norton as I gave most close rounds to Ali and he had the more debatable rounds. Rounds 1 Ali (easy) 2 Norton (debatable) (close all three announcers score for Norton) rounds 3 Ali close(debatable main announcer had for Norton) round 4 Norton(easy), 5,6 Norton (big) 7 Ali(easy), 8 Norton(big) 9 Ali (moving well only takes one big right)(press scoring two have it even) 10 Ali (close)(again even for some), 11 Ali (close), 12 Norton (close), 13 Ali(close), 14 Norton(close), 15 Norton (Ali ran in the final round hardly throwing a meaningful punch Norton picked off the weak jab and Norton won the only 2 exchanges big of the round. Stole it in last 15 seconds and forced the action entire round.)
Very tough fight to score as from 11th on it's tough to score so I don't consider it a robbery. Of the rounds clearly won by a particular fighter I give Ali 1 and 7 and Norton 4,5,6,8
Rest is open for interpretation. Norton 2,4,5,6,8,12,14,15
Ali, 1,3,7,9,10,11,13. However I could see round three go to Norton and round ten be called even. Difficult fight to score for sure.
In the 15th round during the first minute Ali landed four jabs, Ken threw one jab that missed. In the second minute Ali landed six jabs, Ken threw two jabs landing one. During the last minute for the first twenty seconds Ali again landed the jab as Ken stalked without throwing a punch, during the last fourty seconds Ali landed lightly as Ken let his punches go and landed several hard shots to the head as he backed Ali into the ropes. As Mercante taught referee's and judges a round is scored in three parts by the minutes, Ali here winning the first 2.4 of the last round, to give it to Norton you have to pretend only the last fourty seconds counted.
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:10 AM   #28
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

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Gentleman, this bout will be long debated but Ali wasn't hurt in the last seconds attack by Ken and was landing at the same time though lighter. Ken lost the first two and a half minutes of the last round, in order to give it to him you have to pretend it didn't exist. In addition to Mercante being highly respected as a referee and judge in scoring for Ali the AP also had Ali winning the bout and the UPI had it by one round for Ken. The WWS boxing panel that went through the bout round by round with Norton present scored it a draw, so there was no conspiracy or powers that be deciding any outcome.
I think a draw would have been acceptable. Hard for me to give Ali 8 rounds in the fight. A lot of Ali's punches were both weak and blocked by Norton. Norton came forward and had the far heavier shots. They were very evenly matched and their styles led to each fighter having their moments. Ali had the body language of a loser at the final bell and the crowd hated the deciscion but that doesn't always tell the full story. It was a very close fight. I hate to score rounds even so I didn't but had I done so I think it would of favored Ken. As I felt he won his more rounds decisevely. 4,5,6,8,12 I feel he won pretty handily. Ali had a ton of tight rounds that all seemed to go his way. I feel Young beat Ali more convincingly.
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Old 12-26-2014, 04:35 AM   #29
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

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In the 15th round during the first minute Ali landed four jabs, Ken threw one jab that missed. In the second minute Ali landed six jabs, Ken threw two jabs landing one. During the last minute for the first twenty seconds Ali again landed the jab as Ken stalked without throwing a punch, during the last fourty seconds Ali landed lightly as Ken let his punches go and landed several hard shots to the head as he backed Ali into the ropes. As Mercante taught referee's and judges a round is scored in three parts by the minutes, Ali here winning the first 2.4 of the last round, to give it to Norton you have to pretend only the last fourty seconds counted.
All punches are not equal. And I don't think Ali's jabs were landing. They were being slipped and caught. Round 3 is a round I gave to Ali where the best punches were landed by Norton. Norton also landed the best shot in Round 9 where I gave it to Ali again for being busier and scoring more. The 15th to me he ran and did not box and his jabs were ineffective.
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Old 12-26-2014, 05:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: Muhammad Ali vs Ken Norton III (On September 28. 1976, at Yankee Stadium)

I will say the announcers seem a little all over the place. They have rounds 10 and 11 with mixed results on who won. I thought while close Ali deserved them. Then in round 12 again they have it all over the place, of the three experts 1-1-1 (Ali,Norton,even) and I felt Norton won it rather clearly. Also the 9th two have it even- yes Norton landed the best shot by far but that was all he did again I had it for Ali. The 13th was very tough to score -looked like Norton landed some big shots but hard to tell with Ali's back to the camera. If there was a round I scored for Ali that I could switch it would probably be round 3 and maybe 13.
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