Has the Heavyweight Division ever been this Good?

[Zmora]

Originally Posted by damian38

The next HW fight with some good names NOT including the K brothers is Chambers-Liakhovic, hope it's the begining of good fights finally being made at HW

I share your hope but unfortunately...until Klitschkos quit all the other heavies would just stand in queue for big paycheck from bros avoiding each other as potential loss may delay their big day:/

Good fight though. Chambers wins it by wide UD. What is a question is how would Sergei do? Hope he's in good shape with good plan. Go White Wolf

[Butch Coolidge]

It has been much worse and contenders used to be worse about fighting each other, also "champions" were bad about not unifying championship belts. I think now is one of the best eras of heavyweight division. You can find old boxing magazine articles pertaining to the heavyweight division and you'll see a decades long sentiment that "the heavyweight division is the worst it's ever been." You can read that now, you can read it written 10, 20, 30 years ago and you will be able to read it ten years from now.

[piscator]

Originally Posted by Butch Coolidge

It has been much worse and contenders used to be worse about fighting each other, also "champions" were bad about not unifying championship belts. I think now is one of the best eras of heavyweight division. You can find old boxing magazine articles pertaining to the heavyweight division and you'll see a decades long sentiment that "the heavyweight division is the worst it's ever been." You can read that now, you can read it written 10, 20, 30 years ago and you will be able to read it ten years from now.

Bravo!Bravo! Well said! Someone with a bit of historical perspective.

[The Batkilt]

I think the past history of the heavyweight division is often looked at through rose tinted glasses when folk put down the overall state of the division at present. There were, in my opinion, two real glory periods where the heavyweight division had several great fighters:

1) 60s/70s - Fighters like Patterson, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers and many other good fighters.

2) 90s - Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Mercer and other good fighters.

Other than that when was the heavyweight division spoiled for choice? I'm not saying it was poor apart from those decades, as there were great heavyweights active well before then, but when was the division as a whole stacked?

I personally think that it's not a coincidence that the so-called decline of the heavyweight division coincides with the dominance of fighters from the former USSR and other parts of Europe, and the American 'dominance' coming to an end. There are still good heavyweights active today, with some good fighters on the way up too.

[Bubby]

Originally Posted by The Batkilt

I think the past history of the heavyweight division is often looked at through rose tinted glasses when folk put down the overall state of the division at present. There were, in my opinion, two real glory periods where the heavyweight division had several great fighters:

1) 60s/70s - Fighters like Patterson, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Shavers and many other good fighters.

2) 90s - Holyfield, Lewis, Bowe, Tyson, Mercer and other good fighters.

Other than that when was the heavyweight division spoiled for choice? I'm not saying it was poor apart from those decades, as there were great heavyweights active well before then, but when was the division as a whole stacked?

I personally think that it's not a coincidence that the so-called decline of the heavyweight division coincides with the dominance of fighters from the former USSR and other parts of Europe, and the American 'dominance' coming to an end. There are still good heavyweights active today, with some good fighters on the way up too.

IMO, the heavyweight division is by far better than its ever been. But many fans refuse to look at the past for what it realiy was. Even your post shows the effect of massive propaganda against the heavyweight division today.
Both Patterson and Liston were not 70's fighters, but the media aways place them in as part of the great 70s. Liston was dead by 70 or 71, Patterson was around only until 72, thats not 70's fighters.
But the media make many fans feel that all these past fighters were all prime at the same time. It's like saying the 2000's had prime Lewis, Tua, Holyfield, Tyson and holmes.

[Butch Coolidge]

It's kind of the same reason every generation thinks the music of the previous generation is much better than theirs. The Stair Ways to Heaven etc. stay around while the Muskrat Love types disappear.


In most instances those considered "all time greats" never fought anybody comparable to the current heavyweights. You know it was usually a heavyweight 6' 188lbs was a big heavyweight.

[The Batkilt]

Valid point. I think the main reason the heavyweight division gets so much criticism is due to the lack of elite American heavyweights. Obviously there are many factors behind this - young black athletes chosing other sports, the decline of the amateur system to name a couple - but the major factor for me is: size. They don't have many, if any, boxers with the required skill and size to match the best European heavyweights. In decades past guys like Steve Cunningham, Eddie Chambers, Chris Arreola, Kevin Johnson etc would be considered good sized heavyweights - not too long ago they'd be big heavyweights. But because they're not quite big enough, or good enough to compensate for it, many Americans dismiss the heavyweight scene as dross.

Funnily enough, Oscar De La Hoya claims boxing "needs" another American World Heavyweight Champion. Furthermore, Seth Mitchell is going to be that man. I don't agree with the first point, but in regards to the latter: if that's the best you've got, then the world is going to keep "needing" another American champ for quite some time.

The irony to me is they could have a great cruiserweight division. Guys like Chambers and Solis - and perhaps Johnson - should be able to make 200lbs. And they'd be the same size as many of the heavyweights of the past. If the promoters and TV networks got behind them then they'd be able to make a payday without going up heavyweight against guys too big and too good for them.

[pirao666]

Originally Posted by Bubby

Wall falls down in Germany, "Wooosh! Boooom!" Down goes Americans! Crybaby American media say NFL! NBA!

Lots of nostalgiatards and butthurt americans yapping their mouth.

[Honor]

The HW division is about average, or just above average. The fact remains is that the Klits are champs. These guys are supreme titleholders, one of the best in history, I believe. They are the cream of the crop. These guys are also not just boxers, they are politicians, doctors, honorable charity workers, and for the progression of Ukraine and not just that, Europe. These guys aren't dumb idiots like Bowe or Holyfield, who pretty much have to box cause they don't know anything else to do with thier lives. These guys are top scholars and smart men, they enter a boxing ring like a chess match.

Most people say the Klits are ruining the HW division, thats false. They are infact saving it for humiliation. Your all going to be sorry the day Vitali retires, and even more so when Wlad retires. The belt(s) is(are) going to get handed around like a bag of weed.

[pirao666]

Originally Posted by Honor

The HW division is about average, or just above average. The fact remains is that the Klits are champs. These guys are supreme titleholders, one of the best in history, I believe. They are the cream of the crop. These guys are also not just boxers, they are politicians, doctors, honorable charity workers, and for the progression of Ukraine and not just that, Europe. These guys aren't dumb idiots like Bowe or Holyfield, who pretty much have to box cause they don't know anything else to do with thier lives. These guys are top scholars and smart men, they enter a boxing ring like a chess match.

Most people say the Klits are ruining the HW division, thats false. They are infact saving it for humiliation. Your all going to be sorry the day Vitali retires, and even more so when Wlad retires. The belt(s) is(are) going to get handed around like a bag of weed.

As long as the champions are not american, they'll always be ruining the division according to the american media. If the next dominant champion is an european (quite probable, seeing the prospects coming up from both sides) they will claim the division is still sh*t. If he's american, the division will suddenly be great.

Look no further than SMW to see what I'm saying: Calzaghe is dominating "the division is shit, Calzaghe hasn't fought anyone". Ward is dominating "It's the best SMW division evah!!11!".

Their double standards never cease to amaze.

[Bubby]

People can be mistaken, people can lie to themselves and others. But numbers dont lie.
Numbers clearly show todays HW division is by far the best, and even better than any snapshot of any heavyweight division in history. With a deeper talent pool, fighters with better win/loss records, more amature bouts and are physically much larger today.

Compare today's top ten with the top ten from 1972 (remember the socalled great 70s?)

Ring's top ten 1972:

#1 Joe Frazier, 24-0-0, blind in one eye, couldn't pass the physical today.

#2 Muhammad, 35-1-0, lost to one eyed Frazier.

#3 George Foreman, 6'4" 220lbs, over half his opponents would be Cruisers today.

#4 Jimmy Ellis, 6'2" 190lbs, smaller than Cruiserweight today, lost to: Holly Mims 56-22-6,
Henry Hanks 52-16-3, Rubin Carter 18-4-0, Don Fullmer 32-11-2, George Benton 52-9-1 all before 72.

#5 Ron Lyle, only a pro for 9 months but already at # 5, 11-0-0.

#6 Floyd Patterson, was at the very end of his career, had his last fight in 72.

# 7 Ernie Terrell, lost to: Johnny Gray 14-8-1, Wayne Bethea 20-12-2 before 72.

#8 Jose Roman, lost to: Hal Caroll 6-2-0, Herman Harris 22-23-1, Charely Polite 8-5-2,
Jack Bodell 51-9-1 and Robie Harris 3-7-1 all before 72.

#9 Joe Bugner, lost to: Dick Hall 30-8-3 and Jack Bodell 57-10-1 before 72.

#10 Ken Norton, 20-1-0, had been down five times by 72, lost to: Jose Garcia 12-2-1.

So the HW division in 1972 sucked!!!!

[Honor]

Originally Posted by pirao666

As long as the champions are not american, they'll always be ruining the division according to the american media. If the next dominant champion is an european (quite probable, seeing the prospects coming up from both sides) they will claim the division is still sh*t. If he's american, the division will suddenly be great.

Look no further than SMW to see what I'm saying: Calzaghe is dominating "the division is shit, Calzaghe hasn't fought anyone". Ward is dominating "It's the best SMW division evah!!11!".

Their double standards never cease to amaze.

[Mr Butt]

outside the klits its a poor division

[anut]

outside the usa pretty good....... usa very poor...........OVER ALL= I THINK GUYS LIKE TUBBS/PAGE/WITHERSPOON/THOMAS/DOKES/ BEAT OVERALL GUYS LIKE ARREOLA/PULUEV/CHAGUEV/BOYTSOV/MEEHAN/T WALKER/CHISORA/HELINIUS ECT....80S BEATS TODAYS HEAVYWEIGHTS IN GENERAL...............michael dokes no problem beating robert helinius or chisora

[Cafe]

It's fucking terrible and it has nothing to do with America or skin colour. If guys like Adamek, Arreola, Helenius, Dimitrenko, Fury are in the top 10 then you know it's shit.