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Old 02-07-2012, 07:06 AM   #16
teeto
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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Originally Posted by JIM KELLY View Post
Im curious with pac's speed (footwork), he looked unusually slower in his last two fights. Timmy may cause a few concerns with his charging and rough play. Paq has the advantage with power and ring generalship at this weight.
I reckon Bradley is probably a better ring general than Manny. I don't think Manny is a great ring general at all tbh, even with the (exaggerated) improvements. When you look at Manny's ring generalship over the years, whenever it's been good it's always been because of his stamping his mark on the fight early with power and putting some fear into his opponents. Maybe I'm being unfair on him so I'll say that yes that is a form of ring generalship, but someone like Hopkins who controls the ongoings with all thingas technical and tactical, not physical, that's a great ring general in the sense that I enerally associate the term with, personally anyway.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:08 AM   #17
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

Its a fascinating fight, I'm looking forward to this more than Floyd-Cotto. Bradley is as hungry, determined & well-conditioned as anyone around.

Timmy doesnt have the most asthetically pleasing style, he isnt the most gifted athletically or blessed with great punching power.

I'm not sure he is talented enough to win this, he wont lack for effort or graft but I think he'll get outworked & lose on points in a brave performance.

Pacquiao is in for a tough nights work, I think his feet have slowed down since '09 & he isnt quite the formidable force he once was.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:14 AM   #18
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

I agree with Teeto.

Pacquiao's an average ''ring general''.

Against lesser fighters he can command them by planting his left hand on them early and making them weary about opening up too much. Against the superior technicians he struggles to impose himself so much..... Cotto aside.

Like PP mentioned, he has faced a lot of primarily left handed, orthodox fighters.... who'd generally consider the left hook their best punch. Guess which punch is least effective against a ''Pacquiao type'' southpaw.

It's easy to write Manny off in some respects, he still makes a lot of mistakes, overshooting with the left, exaggerated footwork when mounting his attacks, impatience etc - but it takes an exceptional fighter to expose those and actually do something back.

Many a fighter has made a better opponent look shit but lost almost every round in the process. Bradley doesn't seem the type to do that, but I'm not convinced he's got the tools to win the fight.

I expect a Pacquiao decision in the 117-111 region or a late stoppage.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:25 AM   #19
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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I agree with Teeto.

Pacquiao's an average ''ring general''.

Against lesser fighters he can command them by planting his left hand on them early and making them weary about opening up too much. Against the superior technicians he struggles to impose himself so much..... Cotto aside.

Like PP mentioned, he has faced a lot of primarily left handed, orthodox fighters.... who'd generally consider the left hook their best punch. Guess which punch is least effective against a ''Pacquiao type'' southpaw.

It's easy to write Manny off in some respects, he still makes a lot of mistakes, overshooting with the left, exaggerated footwork when mounting his attacks, impatience etc - but it takes an exceptional fighter to expose those and actually do something back.

Many a fighter has made a better opponent look shit but lost almost every round in the process. Bradley doesn't seem the type to do that, but I'm not convinced he's got the tools to win the fight.

I expect a Pacquiao decision in the 117-111 region or a late stoppage.


Also, on the Cotto thing, Cotto has them mental strength issues. I don't mean to disrespect him and say he has no heart, because he does, he's in there trading punches so I'd never say he doesn't have heart, but he does lack will to win in abundance for sure. All stems back to the Margo loss really.

I'm surprised so many people think Bradley will win this tbh.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:27 AM   #20
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

Looking forward to this fight though, even more so now that I see there's a lot of expectation of Bradley, made it even more interesting for me. I thank you all.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:29 AM   #21
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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Also, on the Cotto thing, Cotto has them mental strength issues. I don't mean to disrespect him and say he has no heart, because he does, he's in there trading punches so I'd never say he doesn't have heart, but he does lack will to win in abundance for sure. All stems back to the Margo loss really.

I'm surprised so many people think Bradley will win this tbh.
Yeah, I know what you mean.

There's a difference between saying someone's got no bottle, and saying ''some have more than others''.

Obviously you can't compare Haye and Holyfield in that respect, just like you can't compare Ortiz with (say) Erik Morales.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:31 AM   #22
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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Yeah, I know what you mean.

There's a difference between saying someone's got no bottle, and saying ''some have more than others''.

Obviously you can't compare Haye and Holyfield in that respect, just like you can't compare Ortiz with (say) Erik Morales.
yeah defo

Holyfield and Morales, absolute legends.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:36 AM   #23
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

Mo get point on Pac losing his legs, i'm going to get into that hopefully later today or over course of build up.

Pac's cramping and inability to sustain attacks is a worry against a young hungry lion like Bradley.
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:37 AM   #24
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

A few things that I think Bradley could do:

1. Follow the example of Mosley and JMM
Like Brother Nazim was shouting to Mosley during the fight: "All you’re doing is showing somebody else how to beat this man". JMM, 5 months later, showed us all again. A retreating target confuses Manny big time. He struggles to measure the distance and all of his punches fall short, especially when you circle to your left whilst going back. Once his left hand is taken away from him, he’s rendered ineffective for the most part.

2. Frustrate Manny early
Use the first few rounds to keep Manny’s success rate right down to the ground. He’ll be hopeless and deterred by the latter rounds, and will be less of a monster to take the fight to – something that’ll be needed at some point if you want to win points!

3. Upper body and head movement
Despite being absolutely appalling at cutting off the ring, there may be occasions where Manny will force you against the ropes. When in these situations, simply apply your usual head and upper body movement to continue limiting Manny’s connects. Do this in the middle of the ring too, of course.

4. Countering with controlled, fearless aggression.
Once you’ve got a feel for Manny’s attacks – that are gradually become more desperate and less dangerous – begin launching counter combinations. When timed properly and done with enough accuracy, you’ll not only irritate him, but you’ll actually strike fear and anxiety into him. That may sound weird seeing as though he ate Cotto’s and Margarito’s punches like M&Ms, but those were done whilst knowing his own punches were getting through and landing. When he can’t even get close enough to score without eating counters, he gets disturbed very easily.

Ultimately, the key is making him miss and putting him on a leash. That’s when he’s less threatening and can easily be out-thought.

(I'll try and do Pac's points later on..)
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:43 AM   #25
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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A few things that I think Bradley could do:

1. Follow the example of Mosley and JMM
Like Brother Nazim was shouting to Mosley during the fight: "All youíre doing is showing somebody else how to beat this man". JMM, 5 months later, showed us all again. A retreating target confuses Manny big time. He struggles to measure the distance and all of his punches fall short, especially when you circle to your left whilst going back. Once his left hand is taken away from him, heís rendered ineffective for the most part.

2. Frustrate Manny early
Use the first few rounds to keep Mannyís success rate right down to the ground. Heíll be hopeless and deterred by the latter rounds, and will be less of a monster to take the fight to Ė something thatíll be needed at some point if you want to win points!

3. Upper body and head movement
Despite being absolutely appalling at cutting off the ring, there may be occasions where Manny will force you against the ropes. When in these situations, simply apply your usual head and upper body movement to continue limiting Mannyís connects. Do this in the middle of the ring too, of course.

4. Countering with controlled, fearless aggression.
Once youíve got a feel for Mannyís attacks Ė that are gradually become more desperate and less dangerous Ė begin launching counter combinations. When timed properly and done with enough accuracy, youíll not only irritate him, but youíll actually strike fear and anxiety into him. That may sound weird seeing as though he ate Cottoís and Margaritoís punches like M&Ms, but those were done whilst knowing his own punches were getting through and landing. When he canít even get close enough to score without eating counters, he gets disturbed very easily.

Ultimately, the key is making him miss and putting him on a leash. Thatís when heís less threatening and can easily be out-thought.
Couldn't agree more Rico.

Manny likes a still target or a target moving into his distance, the last two fights he's fought fighters fighting him in retreat. The others fought him like they were the bigger man when most really wasn't.

Manny struggles to gauge distance, the fact his legs/feet aren't as fast they used to be make it even harder for him. Also he's struggling to maintain attacks when he does he's still a massive danger like when he missed with his first attack on Mosley but followed up and floored Sugar Shane. He just couldn't keep that level of aggression and activity up.

As you rightly say, starve him of early success. Don't allow him to get a head of steam up. Feint and Bait him like JMM did and keep half stepping back.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:13 AM   #26
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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Couldn't agree more Rico.

Manny likes a still target or a target moving into his distance, the last two fights he's fought fighters fighting him in retreat. The others fought him like they were the bigger man when most really wasn't.

Manny struggles to gauge distance, the fact his legs/feet aren't as fast they used to be make it even harder for him. Also he's struggling to maintain attacks when he does he's still a massive danger like when he missed with his first attack on Mosley but followed up and floored Sugar Shane. He just couldn't keep that level of aggression and activity up.

As you rightly say, starve him of early success. Don't allow him to get a head of steam up. Feint and Bait him like JMM did and keep half stepping back.
Thatís an interesting point youíve made. It again goes back to another thing Brother Nazim said, about the biggest trick that Manny ever pulled, was convincing the world he was a small man. More fighters are beginning to finally realize this now, and are staying away from his power rather than foolishly challenging it.

And yes, you touched up on the cramps thing. Maybe his legs arenít what they used to be, or maybe he only gets them because he has to chase like never before, or maybe itís a combination of both. Whatever the case, Timmy couldnít have been given a better time to face him. If Pacís physical side isnít declining, then his mental/heart definitely is. As a fan, watching an unenthusiastic and an easily discouraged Pacquiao, is a massive cause for concern. Especially against a hungry, intelligent guy like Bradley.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:22 AM   #27
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

so much of it is easier said than done though lads. We'll just have to wait and see but seriously I don't see anything but Pacquiao winning.
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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so much of it is easier said than done though lads. We'll just have to wait and see but seriously I don't see anything but Pacquiao winning.
I can't wait when this thread gets bumped after the fight
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

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I can't wait when this thread gets bumped after the fight
haha yeah, unless it's us that are gunna be wrong!
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Old 02-07-2012, 08:36 AM   #30
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Default Re: ++++Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley: Technical/Tactical Breakdown Thread++++

Bradley isnt really that much of a ring general either, I wouldnt say he is a better general than Pacquiao flat out. In his biggest win (vs Alexander) he just basically plodded forward relying on aggression and strength.
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